00:00 the choices you make as a leader right
00:03
00:03 now and in the next 5 to 10 years will
00:07
00:07 determine whether our children and
00:09
00:09 grandchildren end up in a better world.
00:11
00:11 We are in a golden age of science. And
00:14
00:14 we might cure all diseases this century.
00:16
00:16 The current set of solutions we have for
00:18
00:18 managing the economic and the
00:20
00:20 geopolitical consequences of AI are not
00:22
00:22 working out. This is stuff which will
00:25
00:25 change the lives of every person in this
00:27
00:27 country and the entire world and they
00:29
00:29 get a voice in this stuff too, which is
00:30
00:30 why they deserve to know what’s coming.
00:32
00:32 >> Hello and welcome to Tomorrow, the
00:34
00:34 Future Forum podcast. I’m Olly Barrett
00:37
00:37 and the Future Forum is really all about
00:40
00:40 bringing people together across
00:42
00:42 industries, across generations and
00:44
00:44 encouraging people to leave their lane,
00:47
00:47 to learn from other people. Our guest
00:50
00:50 today is the founder of the Center for
00:53
00:53 Tomorrow and he has had a fascinating
00:57
00:57 career. He started out working for the
00:59
00:59 United Nations and ended up working with
01:02
01:02 some of the world’s leading business
01:05
01:05 titans, including writing speeches for
01:08
01:08 Eric Schmidt and Mark Zuckerberg. He
01:10
01:10 was, until fairly recently, head of
01:13
01:13 communications at Google DeepMind. He
01:15
01:15 was head of comms for SpaceX, working
01:18
01:18 directly with Elon Musk. We’ll talk
01:19
01:19 about the Center for Tomorrow. We’ll
01:21
01:21 talk about how change happens and who
01:22
01:22 he’d really like to bring together and
01:24
01:24 why. We’ll talk about the idea that
01:26
01:26 we’re at a crossroads and I will quiz
01:28
01:28 him too about his own political
01:30
01:30 ambitions. Our guest today, and we are
01:33
01:33 delighted to say welcome to Tomorrow,
01:35
01:35 Dex Hunter Torrik. Great to be here,
01:37
01:37 Olly. Now, we’re so thrilled to have you
01:39
01:39 with us and Dex,
01:41
01:41 how we start on these episodes is we ask
01:44
01:44 our guests to give us a glimpse of the
01:47
01:47 future. So, that could be 10 years
01:49
01:49 hence. It could be as many years hence
01:51
01:51 as you like. I’d like you to gaze out
01:52
01:52 there for us and tell us what you see.
01:54
01:54 I’ll do even better than that. I’ll give
01:56
01:56 you two for the price of one.
01:58
01:58 We are at a crossroads moment now for
02:00
02:00 our society is.
02:02
02:02 You could have potential futures which
02:04
02:04 involve vast economic displacement and
02:06
02:06 people losing their jobs, the hollowing
02:08
02:08 out of communities, the retreat from
02:11
02:11 values and institutions we all care
02:13
02:13 about, things like democracy and rule of
02:14
02:14 law, a growing instability in our global
02:18
02:18 order and the failure of Earth’s natural
02:21
02:21 systems on any number of fronts as
02:22
02:22 climate change continues. Or there could
02:25
02:25 be a future where none of those things
02:28
02:28 unfold in that way and it’s one that is
02:30
02:30 deeply hopeful, filled with human
02:32
02:32 flourishing, where actually we see many
02:35
02:35 of the things we deeply care about in
02:37
02:37 our society preserved, but also many of
02:39
02:39 the massive challenges we now face
02:41
02:41 solved and actually we end up in a much
02:43
02:43 better future for all of us. And I think
02:46
02:46 that crossroads moment is unfolding
02:47
02:47 right now and we get to decide which of
02:50
02:50 those paths we end up in in the next
02:51
02:51 decade. Right and we’re going to unpick
02:53
02:53 lots of that over our chat today. If we
02:56
02:56 end up in that
02:57
02:57 in that first
02:60
02:60 more dystopian future, if you like, what
03:02
03:02 is the sort of thing you think we will
03:04
03:04 look back on to today and say I cannot
03:07
03:07 believe we did not see this?
03:11
03:11 I think if we do not
03:14
03:14 take action
03:16
03:16 in the next
03:18
03:18 6 to 12 months
03:20
03:20 and begin to have a conversation
03:22
03:22 seriously as societies, as industries,
03:26
03:26 as individuals about the world we want
03:29
03:29 to live in in the next decade then
03:33
03:33 when we look back at this moment we will
03:36
03:36 almost be like watching people in a
03:37
03:37 disaster movie right before the disaster
03:39
03:39 has unfolded and we will particularly
03:41
03:41 focus on and villainize the leaders who
03:44
03:44 saw what was unfolding, the arrival of
03:47
03:47 advanced AI, the erosion of democracy
03:50
03:50 and international order, the collapse of
03:52
03:52 our climate and they will absolutely
03:56
03:56 smack their foreheads with their hands
03:58
03:58 when they hear a bunch of these people
03:59
03:59 say it’s really just like the Industrial
04:01
04:01 Revolution. It’s just like some previous
04:04
04:04 moment of history where everyone was
04:05
04:05 worried and we all got through it and we
04:07
04:07 still had jobs and everyone who’s saying
04:09
04:09 this is doom, they’re sort of
04:10
04:10 exaggerating. I think we’ll look back at
04:12
04:12 those people and think, how the heck
04:14
04:14 were they in charge and why did people
04:15
04:15 listen to them? Right, so that is a
04:17
04:17 particular mantra in terms of just like
04:19
04:19 another revolution and your point is
04:22
04:22 this is completely different. It’s not
04:24
04:24 just a different ballgame. It is a
04:26
04:26 totally different scenario. In a
04:27
04:27 nutshell, just wake us up. Help us be
04:31
04:31 alive to why this is so different. This
04:33
04:33 is not the arrival of steam power or
04:36
04:36 electricity, nor is it the arrival of
04:38
04:38 even more modern innovations like the
04:40
04:40 internet. This is the creation of
04:42
04:42 something we’ve never seen before in
04:44
04:44 history, technology that has the ability
04:46
04:46 to make machines think and in the next
04:48
04:48 decade with human-level intelligence.
04:51
04:51 Essentially, we are building AI systems
04:53
04:53 that will be roughly comparable with the
04:55
04:55 performance of the average white-collar
04:57
04:57 worker and that will be so vastly
04:60
05:00 disruptive to our economies and many of
05:03
05:03 the societal assumptions, the
05:04
05:04 institutions that have built our whole
05:07
05:07 lives and have shaped the world around
05:09
05:09 us for as long as we have lived and we
05:11
05:11 are running out of time now to think
05:13
05:13 about how to manage those effects and
05:15
05:15 how to also use those technologies, use
05:18
05:18 those,
05:19
05:19 you know, outputs to shift us towards
05:21
05:21 something better.
05:22
05:22 >> You’re talking about this crossroads
05:24
05:24 moment, the need
05:26
05:26 to accept where we are and accept that
05:28
05:28 we have these choices. Presumably, that
05:30
05:30 doesn’t look like a series of newspaper
05:32
05:32 leading articles. It involves something
05:34
05:34 far more meaningful. So, give us a sense
05:37
05:37 of why you’ve started the Center for
05:39
05:39 Tomorrow, becoming clearer already, but
05:41
05:41 also what is it? The Center for Tomorrow
05:44
05:44 is both a think tank, but also mainly a
05:47
05:47 community now for people from all walks
05:51
05:51 of life all over the world to have a
05:53
05:53 voice in shaping the future. There are
05:56
05:56 massive choices arriving now for every
05:58
05:58 society in the world about what kind of
05:59
05:59 economy, society, politics, world you
06:02
06:02 want to live in. And right now, a tiny
06:05
06:05 sliver of humanity, leaders from the
06:07
06:07 tech industry mainly, some political
06:09
06:09 voices, some leaders in business, they
06:13
06:13 have conversations about these issues in
06:15
06:15 places like Davos. These are not
06:16
06:16 conversations that are mainstream at
06:18
06:18 all. And certainly, we haven’t ended up
06:20
06:20 with any mainstream set of thinking or
06:22
06:22 solutions on how to manage this. What
06:23
06:23 I’m trying to do now with the Center is
06:25
06:25 both seriously broaden those
06:28
06:28 conversations and
06:30
06:30 do that in a way that both connects
06:32
06:32 leaders and gets them to start thinking
06:35
06:35 seriously about how to solve these
06:36
06:36 things and come up with mainstream
06:38
06:38 solutions that actually are applicable
06:40
06:40 by leaders all over the world, but also
06:43
06:43 to ensure that ordinary people are
06:45
06:45 brought into that conversation and are
06:46
06:46 mainly at the heart of it. And that’s
06:48
06:48 something which I think you can only do
06:50
06:50 by communicating exceptionally through
06:52
06:52 all the different channels and
06:53
06:53 communities that people today are
06:55
06:55 connecting on. It isn’t just a dabbling
06:56
06:56 of traditional, you know, media and and
06:59
06:59 looking for those headlines. It really
07:00
07:00 is, can you show up and talk to the
07:03
07:03 many, many infinite communities all over
07:05
07:05 the world who should get choices about
07:07
07:07 what kind of world we live in. You’ve
07:08
07:08 worked with some of the world’s most
07:09
07:09 powerful companies from Google DeepMind,
07:12
07:12 SpaceX, Meta, of course, internationally
07:16
07:16 through the United Nations as well. How
07:18
07:18 is what you feel able to do at the
07:20
07:20 Center for Tomorrow, which by definition
07:22
07:22 is nascent in a different place to be a
07:26
07:26 lever? The mechanism which we’re
07:28
07:28 building isn’t particularly novel.
07:30
07:30 People have organizations. There’s a
07:31
07:31 huge ecosystem of, you know, think tanks
07:34
07:34 and advocacy bodies who talk about
07:36
07:36 different elements of what we’re doing,
07:38
07:38 but our thesis on the future and how
07:40
07:40 deeply interconnected all of these
07:42
07:42 challenges are and the nature of the
07:44
07:44 solutions therefore which must address
07:46
07:46 all of these things together, I think
07:48
07:48 that’s fundamentally different and
07:50
07:50 certainly I think the clarity with which
07:52
07:52 we’re approaching what is happening and
07:54
07:54 what needs to be done. There are a lot
07:56
07:56 of think tanks and a lot of leaders out
07:58
07:58 there who are right now focused on
07:59
07:59 saying lots of soothing things simply to
08:02
08:02 avoid panicking people and to ensure
08:04
08:04 that they keep getting their funding for
08:06
08:06 doing all the things they’re doing and I
08:08
08:08 certainly have no interest in saying
08:09
08:09 what people want to hear. I’m focused on
08:10
08:10 what they need to hear. And and it and
08:12
08:12 it sounds to me that you’re not going to
08:13
08:13 be content with bringing those people
08:15
08:15 together. It is important that they are
08:17
08:17 creating those solutions
08:19
08:19 together. If you zoom right out, and we
08:22
08:22 shouldn’t be looking too much at
08:23
08:23 yesterday on this particular podcast, I
08:26
08:26 know.
08:27
08:27 How do you think we got into this mess?
08:29
08:29 When I was a kid I remember there was a
08:31
08:31 moment in the ’90s where
08:33
08:33 in the UK at least, we started having a
08:35
08:35 bunch of conversations about how isn’t
08:38
08:38 it strange that
08:39
08:39 most politicians and most political
08:41
08:41 parties don’t really disagree anymore.
08:43
08:43 It’s sort of, oh, we’ve settled all of
08:44
08:44 our big debates. In the world, you had
08:46
08:46 people saying it was the end of history,
08:48
08:48 you know, a certain vision of a, you
08:50
08:50 know, liberal world order had just
08:52
08:52 prevailed after the end of the Cold War
08:53
08:53 and that was the end of it. That would
08:55
08:55 sort of perpetuate forever. And because
08:58
08:58 you had a generation of essentially
08:59
08:59 technocrats who said now we just need to
09:02
09:02 optimize existing systems. Everything’s
09:04
09:04 sort of working. It’s all going in the
09:05
09:05 right direction. We’ll just fiddle a bit
09:07
09:07 with the existing levers. You actually
09:09
09:09 didn’t recognize that there were massive
09:11
09:11 systemic problems that were building up
09:14
09:14 and that for most people in the world,
09:16
09:16 their lives weren’t good. They weren’t
09:17
09:17 good then and they weren’t getting
09:19
09:19 better. And now we’re in a moment where
09:21
09:21 on almost every front, a bunch of our
09:24
09:24 chickens have come home to roost. We
09:25
09:25 have social, economic, geopolitical,
09:27
09:27 environmental disasters galore and
09:29
09:29 leaders are so overwhelmed by it.
09:31
09:31 There’s a certain sliver who just wants
09:32
09:32 to pretend it’s still sort of all normal
09:34
09:34 and these are not normal times. I have
09:36
09:36 to say hearing about the mission of the
09:37
09:37 Center for Tomorrow and because it is
09:39
09:39 very aligned with what we are doing with
09:41
09:41 Future Forum, I would say some things
09:43
09:43 about what you’re doing or what we’re
09:45
09:45 doing are going to be easy. What’s going
09:47
09:47 to be hard? Ooh, I think most of it’s
09:50
09:50 going to be very hard.
09:51
09:51 Because we’re already starting with a
09:54
09:54 set of leaders and institutions that
09:55
09:55 aren’t working in the world.
09:57
09:57 >> Yeah. And they are extraordinarily
09:58
09:58 influential and they have a bunch of
09:60
09:60 ideas that this is all the Industrial
10:02
10:02 Revolution again. You both need to
10:05
10:05 transform an existing political and
10:07
10:07 economic agenda at the very top of
10:09
10:09 societies, but you also need to shift
10:11
10:11 that conversation into the mainstream
10:14
10:14 all over the world and you’ve got to do
10:15
10:15 that all in the next few years very,
10:18
10:18 very fast so that we can then come up
10:21
10:21 with a set of solutions which will be
10:22
10:22 the hardest things in history to manage
10:26
10:26 the technological and societal
10:27
10:27 ramifications of that technology which
10:29
10:29 are all rolling out at record speed. And
10:31
10:31 so, this is something which will be the
10:33
10:33 hardest thing politically and society
10:35
10:35 ever in history and we’ve barely begun.
10:37
10:37 Just to push back on your objection to
10:40
10:40 these Industrial Revolution analogies,
10:42
10:42 what do you say to somebody who says,
10:43
10:43 “Hang on a sec, Dex. All I was saying, I
10:46
10:46 wasn’t talking literally about steam
10:49
10:49 2.0. I was talking about a set of
10:51
10:51 technologies which make it easier to do
10:55
10:55 things, which make it faster to do
10:57
10:57 things, which therefore change how
10:58
10:58 people are able to connect with each
11:01
11:01 other.” That sounds pretty similar to
11:02
11:02 where we are today. What have I
11:03
11:03 misunderstood?
11:04
11:04 >> I mean, all those things are true and
11:06
11:06 yet all the
11:08
11:08 unintended consequences and ripple
11:09
11:09 effects of those
11:11
11:11 amazing benefits for some people will
11:14
11:14 have vastly destabilizing consequences.
11:16
11:16 You cannot have a thesis about any piece
11:18
11:18 of technology without having an accurate
11:20
11:20 thesis about what are all the effects,
11:22
11:22 not just the ones you like. And so,
11:24
11:24 yeah, technology can make things a lot
11:25
11:25 easier.
11:26
11:26 That also means you can probably do lots
11:28
11:28 of things with fewer people. And what do
11:31
11:31 you do with those people?
11:32
11:32 You can magically hand wave away and
11:34
11:34 say, “Oh, well, they’ll all get jobs.”
11:35
11:35 Well, give me the plan. Where are they
11:37
11:37 getting jobs from? How does that work in
11:39
11:39 a future where there’s literally a new
11:40
11:40 invention that allows you to do work at
11:43
11:43 least at the level of the average human,
11:46
11:46 if not vastly better? That’s not steam.
11:49
11:49 So, actually, when it comes to the
11:50
11:50 comparison, you know, between these two
11:52
11:52 moments which often get invoked, I
11:54
11:54 actually I prefer that we talk about the
11:55
11:55 civics because when people say, “Oh,
11:56
11:56 well, it’s sort of like that and we all
11:58
11:58 panicked about it.” Well, no, actually,
11:59
11:59 let’s talk about what the real
12:00
12:00 differences are between those moments.
12:02
12:02 You get to see amazing change makers
12:03
12:03 around the world. Give us a sense of
12:04
12:04 what you see. What could give us some
12:06
12:06 hope?
12:07
12:07 What might not some of us have seen
12:09
12:09 coming? We are using AI
12:12
12:12 to
12:14
12:14 drive the biggest set of scientific
12:16
12:16 discoveries in history. We are in a
12:17
12:17 golden age of science. We might cure all
12:19
12:19 diseases this century. That is something
12:21
12:21 which many, you know, of the world’s
12:22
12:22 smartest tech leaders have talked about
12:24
12:24 and that’s something that of course
12:25
12:25 should give us hope. Who doesn’t want to
12:27
12:27 live in a world where cancer, all
12:29
12:29 cancers are one day defeated? That’s a
12:31
12:31 good thing. And yet, of course, that
12:34
12:34 still opens up lots more questions.
12:36
12:36 Will, in fact, new treatments and drugs
12:38
12:38 be available to most of the world’s
12:39
12:39 people considering there’s lots of
12:40
12:40 things right now which most of the world
12:42
12:42 can’t access. You might use AI to
12:45
12:45 transform labor using both next
12:48
12:48 generation AI models, but also advances
12:51
12:51 in robotics to just transform and get
12:54
12:54 rid of lots of the jobs that right now
12:57
12:57 don’t add lots of meaning to people’s
12:59
12:59 lives. They are jobs that actually are
13:02
13:02 things
13:03
13:03 we would be better off automating and
13:05
13:05 you might be able to liberate people
13:07
13:07 from that yoke of servitude. That is
13:08
13:08 something which absolutely I think is
13:10
13:10 something which could be deeply hopeful
13:11
13:11 if we talk honestly about that kind of
13:13
13:13 world. And then, of course, you know, AI
13:16
13:16 can be used in all sorts of ways to
13:18
13:18 solve challenges we’re facing, you know,
13:20
13:20 in conservation, in, you know, think
13:23
13:23 about, you know, preserving, you know,
13:26
13:26 communities,
13:27
13:27 really improving the quality of services
13:31
13:31 and infrastructure on almost every front
13:34
13:34 until we end up in a world where a bunch
13:35
13:35 of these things where we grew up in and
13:36
13:36 we just assume they’re always problems
13:38
13:38 go away. The prospect of a student
13:40
13:40 leaving school without the skills,
13:42
13:42 technical skills in particular
13:43
13:43 potentially, that they need to thrive.
13:45
13:45 Companies, especially small companies,
13:47
13:47 saying, “You know what? I’m not going to
13:48
13:48 take on that individual.” Help us see
13:51
13:51 how potentially an ever-growing cohort
13:54
13:54 of people without employment find
13:57
13:57 themselves thriving in the future as you
13:60
13:60 see it. On the current path, if you
14:02
14:02 don’t fundamentally reinvent your
14:03
14:03 economic models, so that is the scenario
14:05
14:05 in which this all takes place, you have
14:08
14:08 graduates coming out of universities
14:10
14:10 looking for entry-level jobs with those
14:12
14:12 qualifications, it’s probably not going
14:14
14:14 to end up well. It will be exactly like
14:16
14:16 that. There won’t be enough jobs and
14:18
14:18 opportunities to sustain people who will
14:21
14:21 not be competitive with
14:23
14:23 advanced AI systems and you’re already
14:25
14:25 seeing graduate vacancies in some
14:28
14:28 industries declining by double digits in
14:30
14:30 just the last, you know, 3 years since
14:31
14:31 ChatGPT arrived. People shouldn’t be
14:33
14:33 coming out of universities one, simply
14:36
14:36 with a block of knowledge and no skills.
14:39
14:39 Like, what we’ve got right now is lots
14:40
14:40 of graduates who, you know, for a long
14:42
14:42 time we essentially just programmed with
14:44
14:44 knowledge in a domain and then when they
14:46
14:46 finish their degree, they’re supposed to
14:48
14:48 go out there and get experience and that
14:51
14:51 can’t be the case where, you know,
14:53
14:53 you’ve sort of spent 3, 4 years doing
14:54
14:54 that and then suddenly you’re going into
14:56
14:56 into these lines of work. Okay, so on
14:57
14:57 the flip side, let’s point to an example
14:60
14:60 where you say, “You know, another way of
15:01
15:01 framing it, another way of doing it
15:02
15:02 already is this.” Where are we going?
15:05
15:05 I think the other path actually requires
15:08
15:08 the reinvention of the economy so that
15:11
15:11 actually people are not coming out of,
15:14
15:14 you know, universities or trade schools
15:16
15:16 or anything in order to get jobs simply
15:18
15:18 to survive. Like, the era, the history
15:23
15:23 of humanity where for a long, long time
15:26
15:26 we said you’ve got to work to make
15:28
15:28 enough money to put food on the table
15:30
15:30 and to have an okay life,
15:33
15:33 that has to go away in order to ensure
15:36
15:36 that most of humanity is not left behind
15:38
15:38 in a world where technology will be able
15:40
15:40 to do most things for most people. And
15:43
15:43 so, that’s something where it probably
15:44
15:44 involves concepts like universal basic
15:46
15:46 income which right now has been very
15:48
15:48 poorly developed as an idea. The idea
15:50
15:50 that you might pay people and share the
15:52
15:52 huge abundance of resources that might
15:54
15:54 be created by these advances in
15:56
15:56 technology and then allow them to do all
15:58
15:58 sorts of other things in their lives
15:59
15:59 that give them meaning, but they won’t
16:01
16:01 do it simply to put food on the table.
16:02
16:02 Let’s get practical about this. With
16:03
16:03 your Center for Tomorrow
16:05
16:05 hat on, it’s a new opportunity, if you
16:07
16:07 like, to bring people together. Let’s
16:09
16:09 have a real example. What would you love
16:10
16:10 to see happen and how would you know
16:11
16:11 afterwards that it had done what you
16:13
16:13 hoped? Imminently, like in the next few
16:16
16:16 months, certainly this year, I would
16:18
16:18 like to see a set of major governments
16:22
16:22 coming together to agree that the
16:25
16:25 current set of solutions we have for
16:27
16:27 managing the economic and the
16:29
16:29 geopolitical consequences of AI are not
16:32
16:32 working out and we need a different set
16:34
16:34 of thinking. What this will look like is
16:37
16:37 the shift dramatically in how we talk
16:40
16:40 about managing AI right now which is
16:42
16:42 focused on a conversation called AI
16:43
16:43 governance. It’s not AI governance, it’s
16:45
16:45 just governance. It is choices for
16:48
16:48 societies that are not mostly about
16:50
16:50 technical solutions to technical
16:51
16:51 problems, they are deeply human
16:53
16:53 solutions to human problems and that is
16:56
16:56 something which I think could begin to
16:57
16:57 happen quite quickly.
16:59
16:59 And what do you say though, Dex, to
17:00
17:00 somebody who says, “Dex, that
17:02
17:02 conversation could be best initiated by
17:05
17:05 an existing entity, a part of the
17:08
17:08 existing landscape, if you like, the
17:11
17:11 existing trusted conveners.” You’re
17:12
17:12 you’re presenting a fresh voice, a fresh
17:14
17:14 convener. They’re welcome to do it and
17:16
17:16 if, you know, I thought that they would
17:18
17:18 be able to do this without extra nudge
17:21
17:21 out the door, then certainly I wouldn’t
17:23
17:23 be taking the effort to go and create
17:25
17:25 something new.
17:26
17:26 >> You think they struggle though? Why? I
17:27
17:27 think there’s a tremendous intellectual
17:29
17:29 path dependency in many elite circles.
17:31
17:31 There’s a set of folks who’ve done
17:33
17:33 really well in the existing system who
17:35
17:35 have disproportionate control of
17:37
17:37 resources and voice, you know, in our
17:39
17:39 societies and they don’t want to spoil
17:42
17:42 the mood music by admitting that this
17:44
17:44 model actually doesn’t work out for most
17:45
17:45 people. I mean, the other thing is,
17:47
17:47 right? There are, of course, loads of
17:49
17:49 good people doing exactly the right
17:50
17:50 work. I’m not saying that there’s no
17:52
17:52 existing institutions you’ve got to work
17:53
17:53 with. There’s infinite ones. There’s
17:55
17:55 great change makers working on, you
17:57
17:57 know, economic justice and climate
17:58
17:58 change and, you know, conflict
18:00
18:00 resolution, all these things,
18:01
18:01 humanitarian issues and we have to
18:04
18:04 ensure that those organizations with
18:06
18:06 their real expertise, their lens on the
18:09
18:09 reality on the ground for the majority
18:11
18:11 of the world’s people and societies,
18:13
18:13 they actually now are included. So, I
18:15
18:15 actually expect I’ll be partnering, you
18:16
18:16 know, endlessly with lots of different
18:18
18:18 leaders and existing organizations, but
18:20
18:20 certainly there’s a bunch of folks at
18:21
18:21 the top of these systems where they’ve
18:23
18:23 had a chance and where the idea It
18:25
18:25 sounds to me like you’re saying that
18:27
18:27 there are things which need to be said
18:29
18:29 by some of
18:30
18:30 the leaders at the top of whether it’s
18:32
18:32 governments, corporations, which either
18:34
18:34 they are not aware of. Your theory is
18:36
18:36 different though. Your theory is they
18:38
18:38 know exactly what the problem is, they
18:40
18:40 are just not inclined to say it
18:42
18:42 because it would be in their
18:44
18:44 sort of worst interest for them to
18:45
18:45 reveal it.
18:46
18:46 >> There are some people who just don’t
18:47
18:47 take it seriously. I’ve had plenty of
18:50
18:50 conversations which have been head
18:51
18:51 spinning in the last, you know, 12, 18
18:53
18:53 months where people who should know
18:56
18:56 better are just pretending this is all
18:58
18:58 kind of normal. There are others who
18:60
18:60 actually admit that this is happening
19:01
19:01 and they either recognize the totality
19:03
19:03 or at least some bit of it,
19:05
19:05 but then it’s quite interesting. You
19:06
19:06 either get people who retreat back
19:08
19:08 towards very incremental traditional
19:10
19:10 solutions in the absence of a radical
19:13
19:13 new agenda, you know, being mainstream,
19:15
19:15 or they’ll just wring their hands and
19:17
19:17 say, “This is just too much. Like, we’re
19:20
19:20 basically doomed.” And there’s actually
19:21
19:21 a a whole set of people we now even
19:23
19:23 colloquially refer to as doomers who
19:25
19:25 sort of prophesize that this is just the
19:27
19:27 end. And I am not one of those people,
19:29
19:29 by the way. I don’t think we get to a
19:32
19:32 good future by pretending everything is
19:34
19:34 normal. Traditionally admitting you
19:36
19:36 don’t have any problems is not a good
19:36
19:36 way of solving them, but in fact, I
19:38
19:38 think there’s something much, much
19:40
19:40 better out there if we actually can
19:42
19:42 admit it in time.
19:43
19:43 >> The fix though, which is urgent within
19:46
19:46 all that, is if we are to gather the
19:48
19:48 currently most powerful and help them
19:51
19:51 get in the in in in the right space to
19:54
19:54 say what is going on, to put their heads
19:55
19:55 together to form these solutions, then
19:58
19:58 we risk having a group that are overly
19:60
19:60 male, overly white,
20:02
20:02 extremely privileged, and we’ve excluded
20:04
20:04 all the people that ought to have been
20:05
20:05 around that table. How do we avoid that?
20:07
20:07 >> We literally have to make the effort to
20:09
20:09 go and include other people. And it’s a
20:11
20:11 thing where
20:13
20:13 it’s it’s hard. It’s very inconvenient
20:16
20:16 for a lot of people because our existing
20:19
20:19 systems are so set up for you know a
20:21
20:21 very small number of people to have
20:23
20:23 voice. And yet we’ll we will have to go
20:27
20:27 and ensure that we are looking for new
20:28
20:28 channels and partnering with existing
20:30
20:30 ones and you know engaging with lots of
20:34
20:34 different communities to ensure that no
20:37
20:37 set of voices is being left out of what
20:39
20:39 is the biggest conversation in history.
20:41
20:41 >> Who does that well at the moment? Who
20:42
20:42 have you seen saying that is a better
20:44
20:44 way to put people around a table to use
20:46
20:46 a basic analogy? It’s something which in
20:49
20:49 civil society and for organizations that
20:52
20:52 you know often deal with global
20:54
20:54 challenges, they historically have been
20:57
20:57 better at doing that.
20:59
20:59 You know you think about the kind of
21:00
21:00 voices you know that feed into
21:02
21:02 humanitarian organizations for example
21:04
21:04 who are dealing with these challenges
21:06
21:06 all over the world. They always approach
21:08
21:08 these things with a strongly
21:09
21:09 international perspective. You know the
21:11
21:11 organization that I always loved that
21:13
21:13 was like one of my canonical examples of
21:15
21:15 like you know a thoroughly excellent
21:17
21:17 organization with the right values from
21:19
21:19 the beginning was International Rescue
21:21
21:21 you know which was something which
21:22
21:22 literally Albert Einstein
21:24
21:24 you know helped create you know in
21:26
21:26 response to the humanitarian disasters
21:27
21:27 in the Second World War. And that has
21:29
21:29 always thought about humanity in a real
21:31
21:31 way not in the sort of hand wavy
21:33
21:33 sentimental way where you say humanity
21:35
21:35 but it’s really just a narrow sliver of
21:37
21:37 the population in Europe and North
21:38
21:38 America. This is something now where I
21:39
21:39 think genuinely every organization even
21:42
21:42 if you’re extremely local you still need
21:44
21:44 to at the minimum think about what is
21:47
21:47 happening in the rest of the world and
21:48
21:48 have a thesis on the whole world in
21:50
21:50 order to navigate your little corner of
21:52
21:52 it. Because of course all of these
21:53
21:53 challenges and technologies and all the
21:55
21:55 good futures they will connect the
21:57
21:57 entire world. So what’s your advice Dex
21:60
21:60 to somebody who listens to that which
22:02
22:02 they might say makes perfectly good
22:03
22:03 sense and says okay help me factor that
22:06
22:06 in to a role in which I’m currently
22:08
22:08 feeling overwhelmed. And now you’re
22:10
22:10 expecting me although it does make sense
22:12
22:12 to get my head round the whole world.
22:14
22:14 It’s not your responsibility
22:17
22:17 to solve all these problems on your own.
22:20
22:20 But it is simply to pay attention in the
22:22
22:22 course of everything else you’re doing.
22:23
22:23 Presumably you do pay attention in
22:25
22:25 whatever things you are spending time on
22:27
22:27 and this is something which is part of
22:30
22:30 paying attention to all the other things
22:32
22:32 you’re already doing. It’s simply having
22:34
22:34 a different lens as you go about doing
22:36
22:36 all of those things right now. And then
22:38
22:38 of course if you have more resources if
22:41
22:41 you have time or you know leadership
22:43
22:43 roles the ability to influence others
22:46
22:46 then certainly you have a much greater
22:48
22:48 degree of responsibility which is why
22:50
22:50 you know I’m constantly talking to
22:51
22:51 leaders and I like to challenge leaders
22:53
22:53 as well when they do default back to the
22:54
22:54 safe ideas. You need to be taking this
22:56
22:56 stuff even more seriously because the
22:58
22:58 choices you make personally now in the
23:01
23:01 next few months and years could
23:03
23:03 radically determine your entire success
23:05
23:05 for all time. When you reflect on
23:07
23:07 some of the work you did with the large
23:09
23:09 corporations if you could go back to any
23:12
23:12 of the crossroads that you went through
23:14
23:14 to what extent would you have helped to
23:15
23:15 shape a different direction? I think
23:17
23:17 probably the thing that I would do
23:18
23:18 differently perhaps is much earlier on I
23:23
23:23 would be trying to explain in an even
23:26
23:26 more detailed way what are the ripple
23:28
23:28 effects of all these choices. It’s very
23:31
23:31 easy to go and just tell a good story
23:34
23:34 about something or you sort of only
23:36
23:36 spend a tiny scrap of your time
23:38
23:38 acknowledging the bad. And yet we must
23:41
23:41 have that accurate thesis on how
23:43
23:43 everything is unfolding otherwise we end
23:44
23:44 up with distorted solutions. And it
23:46
23:46 might not help that certain politicians
23:49
23:49 have such an aversion to what they would
23:51
23:51 describe as getting into hypotheticals.
23:53
23:53 >> Mhm. When presumably to do what you’ve
23:55
23:55 described where the side effects are not
23:57
23:57 currently known we have to be able to
23:59
23:59 get into hypotheticals. I don’t know how
24:00
24:00 you can govern in the 21st century
24:02
24:02 without talking about hypotheticals.
24:04
24:04 Like otherwise you you will literally
24:06
24:06 just be an incremental technocratic
24:08
24:08 politician. Like there are futures now
24:11
24:11 within our grasp imminently which will
24:13
24:13 be wildly different and we get choices
24:17
24:17 as societies like right now. And if you
24:19
24:19 can’t talk about what you would like to
24:21
24:21 build and what might happen you know if
24:24
24:24 we don’t choose then you’re basically
24:26
24:26 just winging it and that’s a really bad
24:28
24:28 strategy.
24:28
24:28 >> Isn’t this at the crux of it though?
24:29
24:29 It’s this is what these conversations
24:31
24:31 these opportunities to convene boil down
24:33
24:33 to because what’s actually happening is
24:35
24:35 we’re conflating the idea that I don’t
24:37
24:37 want to talk about hypotheticals live on
24:39
24:39 the radio. We’ve got to have that
24:41
24:41 conversation in public. It cannot just
24:43
24:43 be the secret conversation of the
24:44
24:44 world’s elites. Like that is Davos.
24:47
24:47 Like this is stuff which will change the
24:49
24:49 lives of every person in this country
24:51
24:51 and the entire world and they get a
24:53
24:53 voice in this stuff too which is why
24:54
24:54 they deserve to know what’s coming. Of
24:56
24:56 course leaders need to be able to have
24:57
24:57 deeper often very candid conversations
24:60
24:60 often very wonky conversations about the
25:01
25:01 things that we can do in industries and
25:03
25:03 government departments and so on. But
25:05
25:05 like in a way your ability to make the
25:06
25:06 right choices in those conversations
25:09
25:09 will also depend on that societal
25:11
25:11 context.
25:12
25:12 >> On that what do you say you’ve written
25:14
25:14 speeches for Eric Schmidt for Mark
25:16
25:16 Zuckerberg? What do you say to a leader
25:18
25:18 who says we have to change this
25:19
25:19 organization. I have to bring people
25:21
25:21 with me communication has a role to play
25:23
25:23 in that and frankly I need every tip in
25:25
25:25 the book to take our teams with us as we
25:28
25:28 go through what are going to be some
25:30
25:30 quite uncomfortable changes. You have a
25:31
25:31 responsibility to communicate
25:34
25:34 as openly as you can
25:37
25:37 even knowing how deeply inconvenient
25:39
25:39 that is. If you try to sugarcoat what is
25:42
25:42 happening
25:43
25:43 that is not a recipe for success
25:45
25:45 especially in a time when trust in
25:48
25:48 institutions is very very low and also
25:52
25:52 when there are real disruptive effects
25:54
25:54 unfolding from this technology. You have
25:56
25:56 a lot of leaders who when they
25:57
25:57 communicate about big problems they
25:60
25:60 actually try to round off the edges and
26:01
26:01 to make it sound less scary and that’s a
26:04
26:04 natural human instinct because we don’t
26:06
26:06 want to worry the people we work with
26:07
26:07 who we care about. And yet now the thing
26:09
26:09 we can do to show we care the most is
26:12
26:12 actually to admit what is happening. Are
26:14
26:14 there examples you could share of
26:16
26:16 leaders who communicate well about what
26:18
26:18 we’re facing up to? Most of the leaders
26:20
26:20 I’ve ever encountered in my life who do
26:22
26:22 this really well they’re people who are
26:25
26:25 not famous in any way. They’re people
26:26
26:26 who often work in fields where you
26:28
26:28 cannot sugarcoat a thing because I mean
26:31
26:31 it just wouldn’t work in any way. You
26:32
26:32 know I’ve got lots of friends who work
26:33
26:33 in the humanitarian sector who work in
26:35
26:35 parts of the world that are experiencing
26:37
26:37 huge suffering. And these are people who
26:39
26:39 often communicate in a deeply
26:42
26:42 emotionally authentic honest but also
26:45
26:45 very practical and candid way. One of
26:47
26:47 our mantra Future Forum is leave your
26:50
26:50 lane.
26:51
26:51 Yep. The idea of drawing inspiration
26:53
26:53 from people in very different walks of
26:55
26:55 life.
26:56
26:56 How do you do that? How have you done
26:59
26:59 that? I moved back to the UK. I lived in
27:02
27:02 Silicon Valley. I worked in Silicon
27:03
27:03 Valley for many many years and I came
27:05
27:05 back to the UK in 2018. I think the
27:08
27:08 conversations we have about technology
27:12
27:12 and about society are 100% healthier
27:15
27:15 than the ones I had in California
27:17
27:17 because
27:18
27:18 it’s so easy when you work in the tech
27:19
27:19 industry in California to operate only
27:22
27:22 in the tech industry.
27:23
27:23 I mean there’s all sorts of geographical
27:25
27:25 and cultural reasons why that is but
27:27
27:27 certainly I think in the UK we have a
27:29
27:29 highly diverse you know population that
27:31
27:31 has been shaped by you know generations
27:33
27:33 of history. You know London is a world
27:35
27:35 city of course and you know I’m talking
27:37
27:37 in an unrepresentative way about the UK
27:39
27:39 here but I live in London and you know
27:41
27:41 every day I have conversations with
27:43
27:43 leaders and ordinary folks from lots of
27:46
27:46 different backgrounds and communities
27:47
27:47 not mainly from tech I would say. And
27:50
27:50 that is something which I think is
27:52
27:52 really refreshing and has actually
27:53
27:53 allowed me to have much better ideas
27:55
27:55 about the future. So there’s a
27:56
27:56 geographic lane there industry wise in
27:58
27:58 terms of that breadth.
28:01
28:01 Any any reflections on that in terms of
28:03
28:03 cross-pollination within your own
28:04
28:04 thinking? I’m vastly more interested I
28:06
28:06 would say often from hearing from people
28:09
28:09 who are running organizations and
28:11
28:11 institutions and companies who are not
28:14
28:14 just coming from the cutting edge of
28:15
28:15 tech. It’s very easy if you’re an Amazon
28:18
28:18 or a Meta and you’ve got unlimited money
28:20
28:20 and you’re building these systems to
28:22
28:22 have a thesis on these things and I mean
28:25
28:25 that’s partly why I find it deeply
28:26
28:26 frustrating they often end up with the
28:27
28:27 wrong thesis. But for lots of other
28:29
28:29 folks they don’t have the luxury of
28:30
28:30 those resources or that deep technology
28:33
28:33 edge and so really like understanding
28:35
28:35 like what is happening now with these
28:37
28:37 trends and with these tools helping you
28:39
28:39 know helping them to figure out what
28:41
28:41 they should be doing that can be vastly
28:43
28:43 more rewarding. To what extent do you
28:45
28:45 think that some of the world’s largest
28:47
28:47 corporations ought to be rolling their
28:49
28:49 sleeves up when it comes to social
28:51
28:51 innovation to doubling down on some of
28:53
28:53 our most intractable problems rather
28:56
28:56 than seeing them as a separate
28:58
28:58 department division sector?
29:00
29:00 >> I 100% believe that if you have
29:02
29:02 resources and you have power and you
29:05
29:05 have a view of what is coming you should
29:07
29:07 be working on these things now. It is
29:09
29:09 not a nice to have. It is not a dabbling
29:12
29:12 in getting yourself some good PR. This
29:14
29:14 is central to your responsibility as a
29:16
29:16 leader
29:17
29:17 at this moment in history. What’s one
29:19
29:19 technology or shift that you’re actually
29:21
29:21 very optimistic about? I think we are
29:25
29:25 seeing an extraordinary
29:28
29:28 boom in renewable technology
29:30
29:30 which is our most effective instrument
29:33
29:33 in transforming the world’s energy
29:35
29:35 infrastructure and helping make a
29:36
29:36 serious dent in climate change. You’ve
29:39
29:39 spent time with some of the innovators
29:41
29:41 some of the entrepreneurs creating at
29:43
29:43 the cutting edge of some of those
29:44
29:44 renewable technologies. What’s your
29:46
29:46 observation on anything that gets in
29:48
29:48 their way in terms of super scaling
29:51
29:51 those those innovations? The biggest
29:53
29:53 obstacles towards
29:55
29:55 actually all the most hopeful
29:58
29:58 you know solutions
29:60
29:60 tend to come from you know the political
30:02
30:02 world and from traditional institutions.
30:04
30:04 You can have amazing innovations, you
30:06
30:06 can have a plan for figuring all these
30:07
30:07 things out, but then you can simply get
30:10
30:10 stuck in a mire of
30:12
30:12 you know sluggish institutions,
30:14
30:14 bureaucracies, regulations and you know
30:18
30:18 we’ve known about what is coming for
30:20
30:20 actually quite a long time. Climate
30:21
30:21 change isn’t new and yet we’re still
30:23
30:23 failing so comprehensively at it around
30:24
30:24 the world. If you were to through the
30:26
30:26 center for tomorrow put together a
30:28
30:28 session on exactly that issue and you
30:30
30:30 knew everyone you invited would say yes,
30:32
30:32 what what what sort of intervention do
30:34
30:34 you think is calling out? I’m a very
30:36
30:36 simple man, so I start with a with just
30:38
30:38 the first rung on the ladder. Can we
30:41
30:41 have a global eye-opening conversation
30:44
30:44 about the likely path we are currently
30:47
30:47 on
30:48
30:48 and the one that we would like to get to
30:51
30:51 using this technology
30:53
30:53 in
30:54
30:54 the context of what is happening
30:56
30:56 globally in all of these different
30:58
30:58 domains we just talked about. We haven’t
30:60
30:60 even begun to have a conversation at
31:02
31:02 that level convening lots of serious
31:04
31:04 leaders from all over the world and so
31:06
31:06 that is something the center is
31:07
31:07 absolutely going to be looking to do,
31:09
31:09 but it’s something where if I had a
31:10
31:10 magic wand I was able to you know summon
31:12
31:12 world leaders and business leaders and
31:14
31:14 leaders from communities all over the
31:16
31:16 world to have one single thing right now
31:18
31:18 before we get to a bunch of those
31:20
31:20 solutions let’s just have a deep honest
31:23
31:23 detailed accounting of what is
31:25
31:25 happening. Leaders can wake people up
31:27
31:27 through quotes scaring them. They can
31:30
31:30 wake them up through hope through
31:31
31:31 pointing to the shining light on a hill.
31:34
31:34 Help help us navigate towards what works
31:37
31:37 when people are particularly concerned
31:38
31:38 about their own reputation, their
31:39
31:39 organizations reputation in some cases
31:43
31:43 afraid to put big ideas out there lest
31:45
31:45 they be mocked. You can think
31:47
31:47 that speaking about these things is your
31:49
31:49 biggest risk, but when the world is in
31:52
31:52 flames, in fact your biggest risk now
31:55
31:55 reputationally might be
31:57
31:57 failing to confront the reality of what
31:59
31:59 is happening
32:00
32:00 where you look wildly out of touch if
32:03
32:03 you will not acknowledge it. And so
32:04
32:04 actually
32:06
32:06 you know I think we’re in a moment now
32:08
32:08 where you simply need to be courageous
32:11
32:11 enough to admit what is happening. If
32:12
32:12 you don’t, you’re going to just look
32:15
32:15 wildly disconnected from things and
32:16
32:16 you’ll cease to be relevant. What is the
32:18
32:18 wake up call? What do you say to that
32:20
32:20 C-suite leader who is feeling
32:22
32:22 overwhelmed, busy, a little bit
32:24
32:24 stressed, more than a little bit
32:26
32:26 stressed who says you know what Dex, my
32:28
32:28 philosophy is the future will play out
32:30
32:30 one way or the other and here you are
32:31
32:31 talking about your crossroads and your
32:33
32:33 choices. You seem to be suggesting I
32:35
32:35 need to wake up. What do you say to that
32:37
32:37 leader? Well I would say I would first
32:40
32:40 say do you have kids?
32:42
32:42 And if they do, easy. If they don’t,
32:44
32:44 well I bet you know people who’ve got
32:46
32:46 kids and I don’t know a single set of
32:49
32:49 parents right now who are not deeply
32:52
32:52 worried about the future.
32:53
32:53 And we would all want future generations
32:57
32:57 to live in a better world than the one
32:59
32:59 we grew up in, a better world than the
33:01
33:01 time we live in right now. And the
33:03
33:03 choices you make as a leader right now
33:08
33:08 and in the next 5 to 10 years will
33:10
33:10 determine
33:12
33:12 along with the rest of society in making
33:14
33:14 those choices from their vantage point
33:16
33:16 whether our children and grandchildren
33:18
33:18 end up in a better world or something
33:21
33:21 that is vastly less good. And if we were
33:23
33:23 to see ourselves at this crossroads
33:26
33:26 what gives you us positive sense that we
33:29
33:29 have some of the ingredients we need to
33:31
33:31 go back in the right direction?
33:33
33:33 Something technology did
33:36
33:36 which gave us one of the most powerful
33:38
33:38 instruments we have now to get to the
33:40
33:40 good future is it did connect people and
33:42
33:42 that came with all sorts of
33:44
33:44 other consequences and all sorts of real
33:46
33:46 big challenges, but for the first time
33:49
33:49 in history we have a planetary community
33:51
33:51 with billions of people connected who
33:54
33:54 have the ability to use their voices and
33:57
33:57 to mobilize at a scale we have never
33:59
33:59 seen before and that means that
34:01
34:01 potentially there is a way out of all of
34:03
34:03 these things which will happen much
34:05
34:05 faster than you might think looking at
34:08
34:08 this terrain. It would be a mistake to
34:09
34:09 think about the scale of our problems
34:11
34:11 now by simply looking back at how it’s
34:13
34:13 been done from previous eras. That would
34:15
34:15 be just as big a mistake as pretending
34:16
34:16 to the industrial revolution.
34:17
34:17 >> Right and and a word of advice to the UK
34:20
34:20 on how does the UK become an actor, a
34:22
34:22 player in that and not just a viewer at
34:24
34:24 the big screen cinema? Leaders in the UK
34:26
34:26 need to stop thinking about this country
34:28
34:28 as one from the 90s or from the early
34:30
34:30 2000s.
34:32
34:32 It’s 2026. There’s 8 and a half billion
34:34
34:34 people in the world.
34:37
34:37 The world is changing very very rapidly
34:39
34:39 and if we want to you know live up to
34:42
34:42 our full promise as a country, it
34:44
34:44 depends on us engaging deeply with the
34:47
34:47 entire world on solving these massive
34:50
34:50 highly consequential issues that are
34:51
34:51 playing out. If we think we can just
34:53
34:53 hang on to our little sliver of the
34:55
34:55 world and have the good life just here
34:57
34:57 and that all these other things are
34:59
34:59 someone else’s problem to solve
35:01
35:01 well it’s not going to work out well for
35:02
35:02 us either and there’s not that many more
35:04
35:04 powers in the world which have the kind
35:05
35:05 of resources or history or
35:08
35:08 you know expertise which can be brought
35:10
35:10 to bear as us. I want to hear about more
35:12
35:12 about the center and how we can be
35:14
35:14 helpful as a future forum
35:16
35:16 community. How can we as future forum
35:18
35:18 and as tomorrow be helpful to you? Well
35:21
35:21 you’re being helpful right now giving me
35:22
35:22 a microphone. Um
35:24
35:24 I’m very very keen to massively amplify
35:28
35:28 the understanding of these challenges
35:30
35:30 now and genuinely having the ability to
35:34
35:34 convene people is one of the most
35:36
35:36 critical things we can do. There are
35:38
35:38 infinite numbers of events, platforms,
35:40
35:40 conversations taking place in London,
35:42
35:42 the UK, all over the world every day.
35:44
35:44 The more we can inject these ideas and
35:47
35:47 expertise, the voices who are not
35:49
35:49 currently in the conversation into those
35:51
35:51 platforms, the greater our ability to
35:54
35:54 potentially solve these problems. So
35:56
35:56 if there are people who who care about
35:58
35:58 this and you know have those platforms,
35:60
35:60 we would love to to talk with them. The
36:02
36:02 other one is how can we partner
36:06
36:06 to really understand deeply what is
36:08
36:08 happening in your organization and
36:11
36:11 industry, your domain and it’s actually
36:13
36:13 a thing where what can we do to help you
36:15
36:15 figure this stuff out because the future
36:18
36:18 it doesn’t just arrive magically. It
36:19
36:19 isn’t ultimately just a bunch of sort of
36:21
36:21 hand-wavy statements from some think
36:22
36:22 tank. It needs to be implemented and
36:24
36:24 built in reality by
36:26
36:26 all the people listening to this
36:28
36:28 and and watching this online. And so I
36:30
36:30 don’t know a single team of leaders, any
36:34
36:34 company which isn’t grappling with a
36:35
36:35 bunch of live agendas right now. How do
36:37
36:37 I transform my leadership models, my
36:39
36:39 organization, my structure, my culture?
36:42
36:42 How do I infuse technology into existing
36:43
36:43 processes? How should I develop talent?
36:46
36:46 These are things that we’ve built the
36:47
36:47 center to actually help leaders figure
36:50
36:50 out and it’s something where we can
36:51
36:51 actually work together to come up with
36:53
36:53 the cutting edge thinking which is then
36:54
36:54 useful by everyone else. Right I can
36:56
36:56 hear my listener I can hear our listener
36:57
36:57 or our viewer nudging me at this point
36:59
36:59 saying Dex you’ve set up the center for
37:01
37:01 tomorrow. Why don’t you go into
37:02
37:02 politics?
37:04
37:04 I think I am in politics now, but like
37:05
37:05 whether I run for political office,
37:07
37:07 that’s a separate question. I mean I’ve
37:09
37:09 I’ve never been somebody who has been
37:12
37:12 politically tribal. I believe you can
37:14
37:14 find good people across the political
37:16
37:16 spectrum and the scale of actors and
37:20
37:20 leaders we need now in this country and
37:22
37:22 around the world to solve these problems
37:24
37:24 is just off the charts and so I’m I’m
37:27
37:27 honestly going to be wherever I think I
37:28
37:28 can have the biggest impact. Right now I
37:29
37:29 think it is to convene lots of people
37:31
37:31 and the work of the center is critical
37:33
37:33 for doing that. Down the road I may well
37:35
37:35 explore that path and that’s something I
37:36
37:36 probably will make my mind up about
37:38
37:38 pretty quickly. Watch this space. You
37:40
37:40 almost heard it here first. Our final
37:43
37:43 moment in
37:45
37:45 in every episode of tomorrow is we ask
37:47
37:47 our guest
37:48
37:48 um
37:50
37:50 to send a memo send a memo to the
37:52
37:52 future.
37:53
37:53 Um you choose how far out you want to
37:55
37:55 send it. It could be to
37:58
37:58 your future self.
37:59
37:59 It could be to somebody in the future.
38:02
38:02 But we’re sending it from today in 2026.
38:04
38:04 So
38:05
38:05 what do you say? I’m sending you this
38:07
38:07 memo from the year 2026
38:09
38:09 where we have 8 and a half billion
38:11
38:11 people in the world. We are facing
38:14
38:14 vast challenges on almost every front.
38:16
38:16 The mood is grim.
38:18
38:18 Literally today ballistic missiles are
38:20
38:20 raining down across the Middle East.
38:22
38:22 We are doing the best we can now
38:25
38:25 to try and wake up a bunch of decision
38:28
38:28 makers
38:29
38:29 and societies in the nick of time so we
38:33
38:33 can come up with a better set of
38:35
38:35 solutions to help us get to a good
38:37
38:37 future.
38:38
38:38 And if you’re watching this in the
38:39
38:39 future, I hope that we did the right
38:41
38:41 things and we went as fast as we could
38:43
38:43 to get to that and if we failed, then
38:45
38:45 I’m sorry.
38:46
38:46 And this is something which absolutely
38:50
38:50 I believe at this moment we have the
38:52
38:52 ability
38:54
38:54 to change and
38:56
38:56 the choices that all of us are making
38:58
38:58 right now if you’re watching this
38:60
38:60 in my time really will determine in the
39:02
39:02 next
39:03
39:03 few years whether something much much
39:06
39:06 better has arrived for all of those
39:07
39:07 people from the future.
39:09
39:09 Thank you Dex and
39:11
39:11 we hope that
39:12
39:12 that will help to attract the sorts of
39:15
39:15 meaningful collaborations and
39:16
39:16 conversations that the center for
39:17
39:17 tomorrow deserves to thrive. Thank you
39:20
39:20 so much for joining us. Great to be here
39:21
39:21 Ollie. Tomorrow Dex Hunter Tarik it’s
39:23
39:23 been an absolute pleasure. Thank you.
39:25
39:25 Thank you.
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