00:00 Imagine
00:02
00:02 a world where almost 45 million people
00:06
00:06 who are currently bedridden, currently
00:09
00:09 dependent on loved ones, carers, and
00:12
00:12 support no longer have to rely on them.
00:16
00:16 A third of those people who’ve come in
00:17
00:17 to see us have left with flickers of
00:20
00:20 movement emerging in their fingers after
00:22
00:22 just 4 hours.
00:23
00:23 >> You are someone who um has left your
00:25
00:25 lane
00:26
00:26 >> multiple times. advice for others
00:28
00:28 thinking, I’ve seen something over here,
00:31
00:31 but it is very different to what I
00:32
00:32 currently do.
00:34
00:34 >> Advice, tips, please.
00:36
00:36 >> Um, be curious.
00:38
00:38 >> So, let’s fast forward 10 years into the
00:41
00:41 future.
00:41
00:41 >> Yes.
00:42
00:42 >> And this is thriving. What’s happening?
00:45
00:45 >> Oh,
00:51
00:51 >> hello and welcome to Tomorrow, the
00:53
00:53 Future Forum podcast. I’m Ollie Barrett
00:56
00:56 and here at Future Forum, we are all
00:58
00:58 about bringing people together to help
01:01
01:01 them tell their stories and also to join
01:03
01:03 dots across very different industries.
01:07
01:07 So, our guest today connects very
01:09
01:09 different worlds from health to science
01:11
01:11 to design and rehabilitation. Someone
01:14
01:14 that’s blending wearable technology with
01:18
01:18 recovery. uh she didn’t set off to be an
01:20
01:20 entrepreneur but that is exactly what
01:22
01:22 she has become and she is now helping to
01:26
01:26 change the lives of what we think will
01:28
01:28 go on to be a very large number of
01:30
01:30 people. She’s the founder of NIT regen.
01:33
01:33 Welcome to Tomorrow Dr. Laura Solsbury.
01:36
01:36 >> Thank you Ollie. Huge pleasure to be
01:38
01:38 here and um yeah excited to talk about
01:41
01:41 tomorrow.
01:42
01:42 >> So give us a glimpse of the future as
01:44
01:44 you see it Laura. paint us a picture of
01:47
01:47 what will be possible.
01:50
01:50 >> Well, imagine
01:52
01:52 a world where almost 45 million people
01:56
01:56 who are currently bedridden, currently
01:59
01:59 dependent on loved ones, carers, and
02:02
02:02 support no longer have to rely on them.
02:06
02:06 They can get up. They can hold their cup
02:09
02:09 of coffee again. They can hug a loved
02:11
02:11 one. They can resume work which they
02:14
02:14 once um took part in before. They can
02:17
02:17 pursue the life that they wanted. They
02:19
02:19 have a choice. That choice is given back
02:21
02:21 to them. They’re no longer restricted by
02:25
02:25 disability and a limit in what they can
02:27
02:27 access in health care and support.
02:30
02:30 >> Right. So that is an incredibly powerful
02:31
02:31 vision to start us off. When you talk
02:34
02:34 about that 40 plus million, paint us
02:36
02:36 more of a picture. Who are you talking
02:38
02:38 about? and then we’ll weave in how the
02:40
02:40 company uh and what you’re doing comes
02:43
02:43 into that. Tell us who you’re
02:44
02:44 describing.
02:45
02:45 >> Well, we’re we’re talking about there’s
02:48
02:48 96 million people globally who have a
02:52
02:52 brain injury. Um they live with the
02:55
02:55 effect of that and a substantial part of
02:58
02:58 that population of people who’ve had a
02:60
02:60 stroke. Um, at the moment, currently how
03:03
03:03 it stands is that almost half of all
03:06
03:06 stroke survivors live with an impairment
03:10
03:10 which is not treated and they are told,
03:13
03:13 “I’m sorry, you’re no longer eligible
03:15
03:15 for support.” They’re put to one side.
03:19
03:19 They’re left to the ongoing huge amount
03:22
03:22 of informal care that their family and
03:25
03:25 friends give to them. they take time off
03:28
03:28 work, you know, and abandon their
03:30
03:30 pursuit in life to be able to care for
03:32
03:32 their loved one, of course. Um, but also
03:34
03:34 the social care system, too.
03:38
03:38 Those people are people who we we
03:41
03:41 believe do not necessarily need to be in
03:44
03:44 that position and we believe could have
03:46
03:46 a much brighter future by their own
03:49
03:49 choice of pursuing further treatment and
03:51
03:51 support.
03:52
03:52 >> Right? So, we want to know what you’re
03:54
03:54 developing. Someone listening to this
03:56
03:56 might say, “Okay, so Laura sounds to me
03:59
03:59 uh she’s been introduced as a doctor,
04:00
04:00 someone who’s spent her career in
04:02
04:02 healthcare.” Uh to what extent would
04:04
04:04 they have got that right?
04:06
04:06 >> No, absolutely wrong. Entirely wrong. Um
04:09
04:09 I started my career um in design and
04:12
04:12 then um material science and developing
04:15
04:15 um yarns and textile structures to
04:19
04:19 generate energy to harvest energy and to
04:22
04:22 deliver energy to the body. Well, hang
04:24
04:24 on a sec. So, this is already fashion
04:26
04:26 meets science. So, just take us back on
04:29
04:29 that particular chapter. Fabric that
04:31
04:31 generates energy. What where were you
04:34
04:34 where were you concocting these things?
04:35
04:35 >> Ah, um I was at the Royal College of
04:37
04:37 Art. So I was lucky enough to um be
04:40
04:40 supported um by a philanthropic
04:42
04:42 organization, the Stavros Neos
04:44
04:44 Foundation to pursue um my doctoral
04:47
04:47 research into how we can um manipulate
04:53
04:53 um materials in the body to have a
04:56
04:56 better um and you know more giving um
05:00
05:00 prospect to health and to um our
05:04
05:04 well-being. So, how can materials in the
05:06
05:06 body do more for us?
05:08
05:08 >> You say materials and the body or in the
05:10
05:10 body. I’m just trying to understand
05:11
05:11 >> on on and around completely
05:14
05:14 non-invasive. So, we’re not going in
05:15
05:15 there. We’re not proddding people with
05:17
05:17 needles. We’re no surgical procedure
05:19
05:19 whatsoever. We are working with
05:21
05:21 materials laying on the body and that
05:24
05:24 sort of ecosystem between the material
05:26
05:26 and the body and how those two interact.
05:29
05:29 >> Well, I’m surrounded by rabbit holes
05:31
05:31 here because I’m so intrigued by this.
05:33
05:33 give us an example of what material on
05:35
05:35 the body could do to your health.
05:37
05:37 >> Um well, a lot of materials um can
05:41
05:41 monitor health through sweat,
05:44
05:44 temperature, heart rate, you know, and
05:47
05:47 all of that. Um but for us, we were
05:51
05:51 looking at how can materials do more
05:53
05:53 than that. How can we actively change
05:56
05:56 the way that our body responds um to
05:59
05:59 stimula and for the betterment of health
06:03
06:03 and well-being? So, we have a whole host
06:05
06:05 of external stimula that our bodies are
06:08
06:08 responding to on a daily basis, minuteby
06:10
06:10 minute, second by second, and they’re
06:12
06:12 shaping the way that our brain works and
06:15
06:15 the way that we’re responding to the
06:18
06:18 world and the way that our body is
06:20
06:20 working internally. Those internal
06:22
06:22 biological mechanisms
06:24
06:24 That is really fascinating for us
06:26
06:26 >> and so we’re going to bring it up to
06:29
06:29 today and what ended up happening. But h
06:32
06:32 how did a young Laura Ssbury even get
06:34
06:34 into that? Who who how did you become
06:37
06:37 alive to how interesting that is?
06:39
06:39 >> Well um I was one of those um odd ones
06:43
06:43 in in the university. So I was
06:47
06:47 fascinated by how the the shoulder moved
06:50
06:50 and how the arm moved within materials
06:52
06:52 and how movement could be evoked through
06:56
06:56 the pitching of a sleeve, how the sleeve
06:58
06:58 was set in, how tailor worked.
07:01
07:01 >> This is as a fashion student at the
07:02
07:02 time. This was as a fashion student and
07:05
07:05 a lot of students were avoiding oh let’s
07:07
07:07 do sleeveless you know let’s completely
07:09
07:09 remove that entirely because pitching
07:11
07:11 and getting that balance right is a
07:13
07:13 craft is quite a fine art and I’d be
07:16
07:16 watching tailor and understanding and
07:18
07:18 repeating how they do this and I was at
07:21
07:21 a point in in my life where I thought I
07:24
07:24 don’t want to be in an industry where
07:27
07:27 it’s a throwaway overly consumed uh you
07:30
07:30 know mechanism that’s at work Yeah.
07:32
07:32 Right. Do you remember at the first
07:34
07:34 point where health came into the
07:36
07:36 equation?
07:37
07:37 >> Yes. Yeah. So, um I was working on
07:40
07:40 sleeves and and garments as a fashion um
07:44
07:44 student back then and there was a local
07:47
07:47 hospice just down the road. Um, and they
07:50
07:50 were asking for some support, asking for
07:52
07:52 some help for people at the end of life
07:55
07:55 who they they really wanted to be able
07:57
07:57 to have a garment that enabled them with
07:60
07:60 very restricted levels of ability to
08:02
08:02 dress into and out of, that was
08:04
08:04 comfortable, that was stylish, that they
08:06
08:06 could, you know, be proud of and wear on
08:08
08:08 a daily basis in the hospice. Um, and a
08:12
08:12 couple of my um colleagues on the course
08:14
08:14 said, “Actually, Laura, why don’t you do
08:17
08:17 that?” And I said, “Okay, but why don’t
08:19
08:19 we do that together?”
08:20
08:20 >> So, we banned together and we adapted a
08:23
08:23 pattern which is, you know, a a sort of
08:25
08:25 a paper um trace of how you would make a
08:28
08:28 garment. Um we adapted that for the
08:31
08:31 hospice so that they could use it and we
08:34
08:34 happened to win that um competition.
08:38
08:38 um became sort of selected to work with
08:41
08:41 a local industry partner um called the
08:44
08:44 AEL label um and supporting them with
08:47
08:47 lower body garments because they were
08:48
08:48 working with a lot of people with
08:50
08:50 Parkinson’s, arthritis and stroke and at
08:52
08:52 that point they were really struggling
08:54
08:54 to find well how do people dress into
08:57
08:57 trousers when they can’t bend down when
08:60
08:60 they can’t reach that they’ve got only
09:02
09:02 use of one arm you know and that became
09:04
09:04 really fascinating for me and I wanted
09:06
09:06 to give back can do more with the work
09:08
09:08 that I was doing. So I found almost my
09:12
09:12 area, you know,
09:13
09:13 >> and and all of a sudden these worlds
09:15
09:15 come together. The idea that what we
09:16
09:16 wear can be inextricably linked with our
09:19
09:19 bodies, our health
09:21
09:21 >> as well. But then that approach from the
09:23
09:23 hospice at the time,
09:25
09:25 >> fast forward, the solution you’re
09:27
09:27 creating today is very different, but it
09:30
09:30 is also very related. It’s not clothing
09:32
09:32 in the traditional sense. Paint us the
09:34
09:34 picture.
09:36
09:36 So I at that point I I was thinking
09:40
09:40 great. Yeah, we can we can learn a lot
09:42
09:42 about how people interact with clothing
09:44
09:44 on their body and in particular the hand
09:48
09:48 and the the the arm and the you know the
09:50
09:50 upper limb. But I thought I need to know
09:52
09:52 more.
09:53
09:53 >> I was curious. I wanted to know well
09:56
09:56 what actually happens biologically
09:59
09:59 functionally to the upper limb after a
10:02
10:02 brain injury after a stroke with people
10:05
10:05 who have arthritis, Parkinson’s and
10:07
10:07 stroke and I became almost obsessed with
10:12
10:12 this and I was reading journal articles
10:15
10:15 and almost abandoned my pattern making
10:18
10:18 work just to read all about this area
10:20
10:20 and I wanted to know how can I help but
10:24
10:24 more. I I wanted to do more. I wanted to
10:26
10:26 give back and and do more for these
10:28
10:28 people, you know. I really struck a
10:29
10:29 chord to me. Um there was nothing there.
10:32
10:32 There was no they were totally
10:34
10:34 abandoned, you know, and I thought,
10:36
10:36 gosh, there really needs to be
10:37
10:37 something. So, I ended up in the
10:40
10:40 basement lecture theater at UCL in Queen
10:43
10:43 Square, hiding in the backwards.
10:47
10:47 I think I was the only designer in the
10:48
10:48 room at that time.
10:51
10:51 and they had amazing speakers from
10:53
10:53 international um organizations come
10:56
10:56 along and talk about what’s going on the
10:58
10:58 latest in neurology and in particular
11:02
11:02 upper limb rehabilitation.
11:04
11:04 I shadowed the work of Professor Nick
11:06
11:06 Ward at his um clinic in Queen Square as
11:08
11:08 well and I talked a little bit to him
11:11
11:11 about the work I was doing with
11:12
11:12 fastenings at the time just because I
11:13
11:13 was obsessed with dexterity
11:16
11:16 >> and he said, “Oh, you’ll have to come
11:17
11:17 along and and tell us about this.” I
11:21
11:21 didn’t I I held back. I read more and I
11:26
11:26 listened more to what was going on. And
11:29
11:29 then I I met this amazing neuroscientist
11:32
11:32 who I would say is worldleading,
11:36
11:36 absolute top tier and incredibly humble
11:39
11:39 as well, Professor Stuart Baker.
11:41
11:41 >> Now he was doing a lot of work at the
11:44
11:44 time in many different sectors but in
11:46
11:46 stroke as well
11:48
11:48 >> and he found that there was um a
11:50
11:50 particular response that was happening
11:53
11:53 to a sound that was delivered by a piece
11:56
11:56 of hospital equipment. Mhm.
11:59
11:59 >> And this was firing cells in what we
12:01
12:01 call the reticular formation. So around
12:03
12:03 the brain stem, this area sort of um
12:06
12:06 sending it to areas of the brain which
12:08
12:08 control movement and function in the
12:10
12:10 hand and the fingers.
12:11
12:11 >> And this sound and response, was this
12:13
12:13 deliberate or had it just been observed
12:16
12:16 almost as coincidence?
12:19
12:19 >> Almost as coincidence.
12:21
12:21 So you know it was a huge piece of a
12:24
12:24 hospital equipment. Um, you can’t
12:27
12:27 transport that. It’s incredibly heavy.
12:30
12:30 >> Something was happening.
12:31
12:31 >> Something was happening.
12:34
12:34 But this was a signal from the brain
12:36
12:36 stem to the brain. You still need to
12:38
12:38 connect the rest of the signal from the
12:39
12:39 area of the paralyzed area, you know,
12:41
12:41 the hand, the fingers to the brain stem.
12:45
12:45 And a lot of things on the market were
12:47
12:47 doing that. So electrical stimulation,
12:49
12:49 for example, sends some great signals to
12:52
12:52 the spinal cord, brain stem. But in this
12:54
12:54 particular group of people who we’re
12:56
12:56 looking at who cannot regain movement in
12:59
12:59 their hand and their arm, the signal
13:02
13:02 stops there.
13:03
13:03 >> So just to understand the chain reaction
13:05
13:05 as a non scientist, the sound occurs.
13:08
13:08 >> Yes.
13:09
13:09 >> Triggers a signal in the brain.
13:10
13:10 >> Yes.
13:11
13:11 >> And in some scenarios, one would hope
13:14
13:14 triggers a physical movement. And you’re
13:16
13:16 saying there’s a blockage there because
13:19
13:19 that signal doesn’t get passed on.
13:21
13:21 >> Yes. So if you imagine it, I like to
13:23
13:23 imagine it as a motorway.
13:25
13:25 >> Yeah,
13:25
13:25 >> you have two motorways. Let’s call it
13:27
13:27 the M1 and the M6.
13:28
13:28 >> Um the M6 is the typical motorway which
13:33
13:33 connects the hand and the fingers to the
13:35
13:35 brain for movement. Now after a stroke
13:38
13:38 that’s damaged and it can be severely
13:41
13:41 damaged and there’s no signals traveling
13:43
13:43 there at all. So your car just can’t get
13:47
13:47 past the road works. The M1 is an
13:50
13:50 alternative pathway.
13:53
13:53 >> Little was known about this pathway. We
13:56
13:56 didn’t know that it existed, but it
13:59
13:59 takes a little bit longer.
14:00
14:00 >> Mhm.
14:01
14:01 >> And it’s not as it’s not perfect, but it
14:05
14:05 gets there. And we can actually see some
14:09
14:09 some movement, some function um
14:12
14:12 originating from sending signals down
14:14
14:14 this pathway.
14:14
14:14 >> Yes. Yes. So how how we want to know
14:17
14:17 this?
14:18
14:18 >> How do you join those dots?
14:20
14:20 >> So um
14:23
14:23 it’s really um well understood that um
14:27
14:27 you can send an electrical signal
14:29
14:29 through an existing pathway. That’s
14:32
14:32 great. However, the missing piece of the
14:35
14:35 puzzle for us was the fact that it was
14:38
14:38 not sending the signal all the way
14:40
14:40 through the motorway, all the way
14:41
14:41 through this pathway. it was stopping.
14:45
14:45 Now, this click sound which emerged from
14:48
14:48 this amazing finding with Stuart and his
14:50
14:50 team connected those dots together. So,
14:54
14:54 it’s a case of great, we’ve got this
14:56
14:56 full route now which we can connect all
14:59
14:59 the way from the paralyzed area of the
15:00
15:00 body to the brain,
15:03
15:03 but how do we do this? How can we
15:04
15:04 deliver this in a way that people can
15:06
15:06 access, that people can wear, that
15:09
15:09 people can use on a daily basis? because
15:11
15:11 you cannot go into hospital every single
15:14
15:14 day for hours and hours and hours to use
15:17
15:17 that equipment
15:19
15:19 >> and also you need someone highly trained
15:21
15:21 to be able to deliver that
15:22
15:22 >> when the concept could occur anywhere
15:25
15:25 >> and just be incredibly simple. So how do
15:28
15:28 we make this
15:30
15:30 easy, accessible and you know available
15:34
15:34 to the mass
15:35
15:35 >> without having to go into you know
15:37
15:37 public hospital spaces or even private
15:40
15:40 hospital spaces and spend an awful lot
15:42
15:42 of money.
15:42
15:42 >> Right? So our listener is now demanding
15:43
15:43 to know what’s the answer.
15:46
15:46 >> Um so it’s a very simple device. Um it’s
15:50
15:50 a wristworn device which um pokes you in
15:54
15:54 the arm. It’s um
15:55
15:55 >> physically
15:56
15:56 >> physically poking you in the arm. Um
15:58
15:58 >> or a little spike
15:60
15:60 >> like a little a little prod a little um
16:02
16:02 yeah a little tapper. We call it a tap.
16:05
16:05 So it’s a tap click device.
16:08
16:08 >> It’s tapping you on the arm
16:10
16:10 >> and that’s sending a neural signal to
16:12
16:12 your spinal cord and then the click
16:15
16:15 sound is precisely timed. So, we’ve got
16:17
16:17 this bang on really, really accurately
16:20
16:20 so that it picks up that signal at the
16:22
16:22 right time and sends it to the areas of
16:24
16:24 the brain, um, cortical areas,
16:26
16:26 subcortical areas, and back down again
16:29
16:29 in a constantly closed loop system.
16:33
16:33 Doing that endlessly
16:35
16:35 for, you know, huge amounts of
16:37
16:37 repetitions can restore movement.
16:41
16:41 >> Amazing.
16:43
16:43 Amazing. Um, that’s a cool home run.
16:48
16:48 >> Yes.
16:48
16:48 >> Yeah. Um,
16:51
16:51 that’s the theory. Except it’s more than
16:53
16:53 a theory because you’ve started testing
16:55
16:55 it.
16:55
16:55 >> We have. We have. So, we reached out to
16:59
16:59 um a charity um called Different
17:02
17:02 Strokes. And they’re a charity that’s
17:04
17:04 run by stroke survivors for stroke
17:06
17:06 survivors. They’re incredible. and they
17:09
17:09 helped us to find people who can come
17:11
17:11 along and test this. Um, we’ve worked
17:15
17:15 with people who’ve had a stroke just six
17:18
17:18 months ago
17:20
17:20 >> all the way up to 40 plus years ago.
17:23
17:23 >> Um, and a third of those people who’ve
17:25
17:25 come in to see us have left with
17:27
17:27 flickers of movement emerging in their
17:29
17:29 fingers after just 4 hours.
17:31
17:31 >> Wow. Where they hadn’t heard any.
17:33
17:33 >> Yes.
17:34
17:34 >> Amazing. So, this is um life-changing
17:37
17:37 stuff. what stage I’m going to get
17:40
17:40 suddenly practical from something that
17:42
17:42 I’m finding very powerful.
17:43
17:43 >> Um what stage are you at and what’s
17:45
17:45 next?
17:46
17:46 >> So we’ve done a pilot a pilot clinical
17:49
17:49 study.
17:50
17:50 >> Yeah.
17:51
17:51 >> We’ve tested what we think maybe you
17:54
17:54 know working with um measuring tools
17:57
17:57 that we think could be useful to help us
17:60
17:60 to identify and demonstrate the evidence
18:02
18:02 there.
18:03
18:03 >> Um we’ve learned a huge amount from
18:05
18:05 that. Um, and now we’re refining that.
18:08
18:08 So, our next step is we think we can do
18:11
18:11 better. We want to bring people in to
18:15
18:15 measure how fast the neurons are firing
18:18
18:18 in their arm. People who’ve had a stroke
18:20
18:20 and also healthy volunteers too because
18:23
18:23 that can also help us with our data pool
18:26
18:26 and we can then get the timing even
18:29
18:29 better for more people. For us, we need
18:34
18:34 to reach out to those people who are
18:36
18:36 more marginalized, you know, not
18:38
18:38 reaching, not even engaged in therapy,
18:41
18:41 >> not engaged in research, maybe a bit
18:43
18:43 cautious, maybe, you know, oh, is that
18:45
18:45 going to work? We would just love to
18:48
18:48 take some recordings
18:50
18:50 >> with some sticky pad electrodes.
18:53
18:53 >> We’re not, again, we’re not proddding
18:55
18:55 people. We’re not opening up nothing at
18:56
18:56 all. very very um non-invasive
19:00
19:00 to get this right and optimize this
19:04
19:04 further before we move on to a full
19:06
19:06 clinical trial.
19:07
19:07 >> Right. So let’s fast forward 10 years
19:09
19:09 into the future.
19:10
19:10 >> Yes.
19:11
19:11 >> And this is thriving. What’s happening?
19:14
19:14 >> Oh, we want to move in in 10 years. We
19:17
19:17 want to move from um treating to
19:20
19:20 preventing.
19:22
19:22 >> So this is our big goal. Our big vision
19:24
19:24 is let’s move from having to treat the
19:28
19:28 mass amounts of people who are
19:31
19:31 essentially told no sorry we can’t help
19:33
19:33 you anymore to going ah we’re helping so
19:36
19:36 many people we have a predictive model
19:38
19:38 so we can see from the data that we’re
19:40
19:40 bringing in who’s responding really well
19:43
19:43 and why so more people can access
19:45
19:45 further help and support following a
19:47
19:47 brain injury and stroke. Forgive me, I’m
19:50
19:50 being slow. Say how this comes into
19:51
19:51 prevention because a lot of that sounds
19:53
19:53 like it’s post the stroke happening. So,
19:55
19:55 just help help me understand.
19:57
19:57 >> And then we want to move the device, the
19:60
19:60 treatment,
20:01
20:01 and pivot that into a preventative
20:03
20:03 method for the obesity crisis.
20:07
20:07 So, I know it sounds like a bit of a
20:09
20:09 leap, but stay with me.
20:12
20:12 >> Um,
20:13
20:13 essentially what we’re doing here is
20:14
20:14 we’re strength training. We’re
20:16
20:16 finetuning muscles uniquely. What we can
20:20
20:20 do is we can strengthen really
20:22
20:22 profoundly weak muscles or we can relax
20:26
20:26 overactive painful muscles. So sometimes
20:29
20:29 you see people coming into the clinic
20:31
20:31 and they’ve got a clenched fist really
20:32
20:32 really tight
20:33
20:33 >> nails sometimes digging and piercing
20:35
20:35 blood into their palm.
20:36
20:36 >> Um
20:38
20:38 >> we can relax and open and stop that from
20:40
20:40 happening. Equally we can strengthen you
20:42
20:42 know and we can build up that that grip
20:44
20:44 again. Well, if we can help improve how
20:49
20:49 muscles work with um you know increased
20:52
20:52 muscle tone and reducing that muscle
20:55
20:55 wastage, think about it in a way where
20:58
20:58 people who are unable to exercise for
21:01
21:01 whatever reason that may be either it’s
21:04
21:04 too costly or they’re too busy or
21:09
21:09 they’re highly fatigued and there’s some
21:11
21:11 other ailment which is preventing them
21:13
21:13 from doing that. How can we use
21:15
21:15 materials in the body to prime and um
21:20
21:20 improve the way that muscles work so
21:23
21:23 that we we support an increase in metab
21:26
21:26 in metabolic rate um circulation and
21:30
21:30 ultimately a healthy weight
21:33
21:33 >> and your vision of that Laura does that
21:35
21:35 remain a wearable you back into your
21:37
21:37 clothing background there?
21:39
21:39 >> Yes. Well, interestingly, this device
21:41
21:41 that we’ve got for stroke was originally
21:43
21:43 a textile um but we pivoted for cost
21:47
21:47 purposes. We want to make this as cheap
21:49
21:49 as possible to get it out there so most
21:51
21:51 many people can and benefit from this. I
21:54
21:54 think it will be similar for the obesity
21:56
21:56 um perspective as well and the
21:58
21:58 preventative purpose. We want this to be
22:02
22:02 used by as many people as possible and
22:05
22:05 not just limited to the 2% who can, you
22:09
22:09 know, purchase it.
22:10
22:10 >> Right? So, watch this space on that one.
22:13
22:13 Let’s take a a brief pause. I’ve got so
22:15
22:15 many questions for you, but this is our
22:18
22:18 tomorrow pick a number round. So, I’d
22:21
22:21 like you to pick a number between uh 1
22:23
22:23 and 10. I’ll fire some quick fire
22:25
22:25 questions at you.
22:26
22:26 >> Three.
22:28
22:28 What’s a belief from fashion that still
22:31
22:31 serves you in health and what’s one that
22:35
22:35 absolutely doesn’t?
22:37
22:37 >> Ah, okay. That’s a really interesting
22:41
22:41 one. Um, I suppose the fact that, you
22:46
22:46 know, we can make something inclusive
22:51
22:51 in a way that is still desirable.
22:54
22:54 >> Mhm. So you know just by having an
22:58
22:58 inclusive element on a product service
23:00
23:00 or whatever it is doesn’t have to be
23:02
23:02 limited to those people who are
23:04
23:04 marginalized and cannot you know access
23:06
23:06 the wider mainstream thing. It can
23:08
23:08 actually be desirable by the entire, you
23:12
23:12 know, community beyond that. And
23:14
23:14 actually by designing for
23:17
23:17 not just those that are marginalized,
23:19
23:19 but those that already have access, it
23:21
23:21 means that you try and bring those
23:22
23:22 worlds together, which I think is
23:24
23:24 beautiful.
23:24
23:24 >> Yeah. Love that. So, how about something
23:26
23:26 which although you might still respect
23:28
23:28 it, you’ve had to sort of leave behind,
23:30
23:30 if you like, as you go into a different
23:32
23:32 health world. Any any thought on that?
23:34
23:34 Yeah, I suppose. Oh gosh, this may be a
23:37
23:37 bit of a sore point, but I have a I have
23:39
23:39 a little bit of a bug bear with recycled
23:43
23:43 um fibers and recycling plastics into
23:47
23:47 textiles
23:49
23:49 >> purely because you’re just increasing
23:53
23:53 the amount of microlastics that are in
23:55
23:55 the environment. You know, textiles shed
23:57
23:57 fibers on a daily basis through washing
23:60
24:00 and drying and, you know, even just
24:02
24:02 wearing things. So
24:05
24:05 I think that that’s something that
24:07
24:07 should be really avoided
24:10
24:10 pivoted away from.
24:11
24:11 >> All right. So So hang on. I’m trying to
24:13
24:13 >> Sorry. Are you getting a pivot?
24:15
24:15 >> But but you’re are you pro-recycling in
24:18
24:18 that sense or are you are you pointing
24:20
24:20 to like a hidden downside? I’m pointing
24:22
24:22 to a hidden downside which I feel that
24:24
24:24 the recycling of plastics should maybe
24:27
24:27 be better positioned elsewhere and not
24:30
24:30 in textiles purely because it’s
24:33
24:33 exacerbating the uh the pollution that
24:36
24:36 we’re not seeing the invisible pollution
24:38
24:38 of microlastics.
24:40
24:40 >> Fascinating. I’ve never thought about
24:41
24:41 that. Really helpful. Thank you. Uh
24:43
24:43 another number,
24:44
24:44 >> seven odd numbers.
24:47
24:47 >> When you were changing lanes, that’s a
24:48
24:48 favorite phrase of ours at future forum.
24:50
24:50 When you were changing lanes, were there
24:52
24:52 ever times when you felt slightly out of
24:54
24:54 your depth? And if you did, how did you
24:57
24:57 handle it?
24:59
24:59 >> All the time, I think. All the time. Um
25:03
25:03 yeah, I I think sitting in the back of
25:06
25:06 the lecture theater and just being
25:08
25:08 feeling like the only person in my field
25:11
25:11 to be, you know, listening to a lecture
25:16
25:16 on um clinical neuroscience
25:20
25:20 and going, “Ah, okay, I’m taking it in.
25:24
25:24 I get it. But I feel like potentially
25:29
25:29 they may not respond well to me, you
25:31
25:31 know, and like I feel like should I even
25:34
25:34 be in this room? Should I even be here?
25:37
25:37 Um felt a bit out of my depth in that
25:40
25:40 respect.
25:41
25:41 >> What kept you there?
25:44
25:44 >> I suppose a selfishness in curiosity to
25:47
25:47 and thinking about the community that
25:49
25:49 I’m trying to serve and saying, you know
25:51
25:51 what, they deserve better. the community
25:55
25:55 deserves better than the care that
25:56
25:56 they’re receiving. And um I think that a
26:01
26:01 different approach,
26:03
26:03 an angle from a design leap perspective
26:07
26:07 could actually add something different
26:10
26:10 and maybe improve what’s going on there.
26:14
26:14 >> Just wonder along that journey, were
26:16
26:16 there individuals who either literally
26:18
26:18 or in other ways said, you know, you’re
26:21
26:21 welcome here? made you feel that you did
26:24
26:24 belong in that room. And I’m fascinated
26:26
26:26 by some of those people along our way.
26:28
26:28 You know,
26:29
26:29 >> one of the actually one that stands out
26:32
26:32 to me was um Dr. Rachel Stockley. She’s
26:36
26:36 a physiootherapist. I met her in the
26:39
26:39 queue to get beverages and drinks and
26:41
26:41 refreshments after the lecture. And we
26:44
26:44 just got chatting and immediately she
26:47
26:47 said, “Ah, I’m really interested in in
26:50
26:50 you know, talking to you further.” And I
26:52
26:52 thought, huh,
26:54
26:54 they’re interested in, you know, what’s
26:56
26:56 going on. I didn’t expect that. So,
26:59
26:59 yeah, that was a real vote of
27:01
27:01 confidence. And then she started
27:03
27:03 mentoring me from that point and had is
27:07
27:07 still in my life is still there and
27:10
27:10 works with me um within the work that
27:12
27:12 we’re doing and actually is a huge
27:14
27:14 inspiration herself because she
27:17
27:17 advocates for people who are you know
27:20
27:20 leaving their lane and um she also
27:22
27:22 leaves her lane too to work in the
27:24
27:24 digital um technologies and and in in
27:27
27:27 healthcare but she she’s very much an
27:29
27:29 advocate for that.
27:30
27:30 >> Love that example. Thank you. Uh, one
27:32
27:32 more number.
27:32
27:32 >> Yeah. Um, 10.
27:35
27:35 >> What are you? And I should say this
27:37
27:37 question is here because I’ve been
27:40
27:40 mulling this thought that entrepreneurs
27:42
27:42 have to combine patience with impatience
27:46
27:46 >> in the sense that some of the systems
27:48
27:48 that you’re working within are very slow
27:49
27:49 moving.
27:50
27:50 >> Yeah.
27:51
27:51 >> And yet you clearly are someone who
27:52
27:52 wants to and thrives on making stuff
27:54
27:54 happen. That’s why question number 10
27:56
27:56 is, what are you becoming more impatient
27:59
27:59 about?
28:00
28:00 Oh
28:03
28:03 um
28:04
28:04 I suppose
28:06
28:06 getting approvals to run with a study
28:11
28:11 I um yeah I get impatient because I then
28:14
28:14 find something else and I go ah we can
28:17
28:17 then look into this and see what’s
28:19
28:19 happening here with this particular test
28:22
28:22 that what what’s emerging with our
28:23
28:23 results here and then we go ah okay we
28:26
28:26 then have to go and seek approve it’s
28:28
28:28 there for a reason and it’s important
28:30
28:30 important, but I can’t help but be
28:34
28:34 incredibly honest here and say I’m very
28:36
28:36 impatient because I just want to hear
28:37
28:37 back from the committee and I just want
28:39
28:39 to get going. And um also having the
28:42
28:42 space to do that as well. We’re very
28:44
28:44 lucky to have an amazing space at UCLH
28:47
28:47 in um Nick Ward’s um lab there. But you
28:53
28:53 know NHS space incredibly tight. Um you
28:57
28:57 know it’s like a a piece of gold when
28:59
28:59 you find some space and um obviously
29:02
29:02 we’re sharing that with amazing amazing
29:04
29:04 researchers who are doing lots of work.
29:07
29:07 So you know having that space is a
29:09
29:09 luxury so that we can again just run. So
29:12
29:12 I do get a bit impatient sometimes when
29:13
29:13 I can’t get in to the lab and you know
29:16
29:16 just just run with it. So
29:17
29:17 >> that makes total sense. I feel your
29:19
29:19 frustration on that. And how about if we
29:21
29:21 said look let’s really get our heads
29:23
29:23 together through tomorrow through future
29:25
29:25 forum and let’s just get even better as
29:28
29:28 a country as a um you know as a as a
29:30
29:30 world at supporting the innovators what
29:34
29:34 needs to be blasted out of their way.
29:36
29:36 How do we better support? So you’ve
29:38
29:38 worked with some incredible programs.
29:39
29:39 You’ve been supported by organizations
29:42
29:42 including UKRI. You’ve worked with a
29:43
29:43 venture capital firm from the start.
29:45
29:45 Help us be as blunt as you like. How
29:48
29:48 does the ecosystem how do we help you
29:51
29:51 and your peers even more and even
29:54
29:54 quicker?
29:56
29:56 >> Um, okay. Can we can we not just
30:01
30:01 entirely focus on funding a very small
30:04
30:04 subsection of people and look widely at
30:08
30:08 the impact that you know hardware can
30:11
30:11 do? Can we have a bit more of a focus on
30:14
30:14 hardware and say we still need hardware,
30:17
30:17 we still need treatments. We still need
30:19
30:19 that. So, can we put a bit more of a
30:22
30:22 backing behind that and go, let’s just
30:25
30:25 run with this.
30:26
30:26 >> Got it. What else?
30:27
30:27 >> Um,
30:29
30:29 regulations. Um, I’ve seen some really
30:32
30:32 incredible work from a couple of people
30:34
30:34 who are XNHS now working on things which
30:37
30:37 look interesting to try and automate the
30:39
30:39 regulatory pathway. Can we do more of
30:42
30:42 that? Can we try and get that so we’re
30:45
30:45 not waiting for approvals? And you know,
30:48
30:48 can there be a more efficient system so
30:51
30:51 we can run faster and we’re not waiting
30:54
30:54 for paperwork to then get these things
30:56
30:56 into the hands of people that need it?
30:58
30:58 >> Interesting. Is there anywhere in the
30:59
30:59 world that you’ve spotted that you think
31:00
31:00 actually why don’t we learn from them?
31:03
31:03 >> Ah, no. Sorry.
31:06
31:06 >> Well, that’s very honest. Well, we’ll
31:07
31:07 keep looking. Uh, try and try and join
31:09
31:09 some dots. Uh just paint us a brief
31:11
31:11 picture, Laura. Um as the product
31:14
31:14 evolves,
31:16
31:16 are we getting it through our doctor?
31:18
31:18 Are we buying it in a well-known
31:19
31:19 retailer? Just uh help us understand how
31:22
31:22 this really comes to life.
31:23
31:23 >> Yeah. Um so there’s a couple of options
31:27
31:27 there for us. We are actually a class 2
31:30
31:30 a medical device, which means that
31:33
31:33 there’s restrictions around what we can
31:35
31:35 and cannot do. Um
31:38
31:38 we are looking first and foremost at
31:42
31:42 getting this into clinics that are
31:44
31:44 operating around the UK. We know the UK
31:46
31:46 really really well. Um so that’s the
31:50
31:50 first point of call. Um it it’s
31:53
31:53 essentially something that then helps us
31:55
31:55 to connect the dots between um clinical
31:58
31:58 practice and um homebased therapies and
32:03
32:03 bringing those two things together so
32:05
32:05 the data can be shed back to the
32:07
32:07 clinical um you know side and and and
32:10
32:10 the practitioners there to benefit from
32:13
32:13 rather than just being in silo and going
32:15
32:15 let’s just run through a you know
32:17
32:17 consumer-based product.
32:18
32:18 >> Right. That makes sense. and hence the
32:19
32:19 call for um you know individuals and
32:22
32:22 organizations around the whole of the UK
32:24
32:24 right
32:25
32:25 >> yes
32:25
32:25 >> um
32:26
32:26 >> brief reflections you are someone who um
32:29
32:29 has left your lane
32:31
32:31 >> multiple times advice for others
32:33
32:33 thinking I’ve seen something over here
32:36
32:36 but it is very different to what I
32:37
32:37 currently do
32:39
32:39 >> advice tips please
32:41
32:41 >> um be curious don’t let anybody stop
32:45
32:45 your curiosity even if you have that
32:47
32:47 little voice in your head or even voices
32:49
32:49 outside that are telling you what are
32:51
32:51 you doing? Um, keep going, keep pursuing
32:55
32:55 that. Read, read, read, talk to people,
32:59
32:59 listen. I think listening is is a real
33:02
33:02 skill at the moment. and having the
33:04
33:04 capacity to sit there beyond a couple of
33:07
33:07 minutes or flick through a real or you
33:09
33:09 know let’s sit and let’s get into the
33:12
33:12 you know the real nuggets of what’s
33:15
33:15 happening and unpack that and dig
33:18
33:18 deeper.
33:19
33:19 >> Can I just try and understand though
33:22
33:22 there was a fork in the road where you
33:24
33:24 ended up literally sitting in the back
33:26
33:26 of lecture theaters learning about
33:28
33:28 neuroscience really reading deeply about
33:30
33:30 it. The other fork was to say, I don’t
33:33
33:33 need to do this because I just need to
33:35
33:35 bring an expert right alongside me to
33:38
33:38 complement what I know about fashion and
33:40
33:40 textiles and all of the other things.
33:42
33:42 Why didn’t you take that second fork?
33:45
33:45 I wanted to be able to work very closely
33:49
33:49 with them to talk a very similar
33:51
33:51 language to know what what is actually
33:53
33:53 happening to know that the decisions
33:56
33:56 that I’m making with how we’re creating
33:59
33:59 this device are the is the right thing
34:03
34:03 to do
34:04
34:04 >> and ultimately I think then you you
34:06
34:06 become the lynch pin between multiple
34:09
34:09 sectors and you have to be able to
34:11
34:11 understand what each sector is doing to
34:13
34:13 then bring people together within that
34:16
34:16 community, that ecosystem, and drive it
34:19
34:19 forward. If you just rely on someone
34:21
34:21 else and they’re doing multiple other
34:23
34:23 things, well then where’s where’s it
34:26
34:26 going? And I think it gets lost.
34:28
34:28 >> Yeah, understood. Um, so today of course
34:31
34:31 textiles, fashion, now health,
34:32
34:32 neuroscience, wearables.
34:34
34:34 >> Yes. Um, is there a an example of where
34:37
34:37 you are still learning from completely
34:39
34:39 different lanes, different worlds,
34:40
34:40 different industries to try to
34:42
34:42 cross-pollinate into what you do today?
34:44
34:44 >> Yes, actually electrical engineering.
34:48
34:48 >> Tell me.
34:50
34:50 >> Um, well, because we’ve pivoted from a
34:53
34:53 device that was fundamentally textile
34:56
34:56 um into a device that’s worn on the
34:59
34:59 wrist is using offthe-shelf electrical
35:02
35:02 components put together. I need to know,
35:05
35:05 you know, what’s going on here. I need
35:07
35:07 to know what each piece is doing and how
35:09
35:09 that’s supporting, you know, the deliver
35:11
35:11 of the treatment and why those things
35:13
35:13 are there.
35:13
35:13 >> Got it. How how are you, how are you
35:15
35:15 jing up? Um so I work really closely
35:18
35:18 with people who have trained in this
35:21
35:21 area but then are also now in industry
35:23
35:23 and they understand the bridge between
35:26
35:26 yes just making something for making it
35:29
35:29 but for making something for scale and
35:31
35:31 manufacture because there’s a difference
35:33
35:33 there and um I ask lots of questions. So
35:37
35:37 meetings may go on a little bit longer
35:38
35:38 than expected but we have a really good
35:41
35:41 chat but I think that’s important and
35:44
35:44 then you have that you have that shared
35:46
35:46 vision and that shared understanding.
35:49
35:49 >> Right. So other than finding individuals
35:53
35:53 who presumably I’m putting this for you
35:55
35:55 so tell me if I’ve got it wrong that
35:56
35:56 might want to test the device.
35:58
35:58 >> Yes.
35:59
35:59 >> How can our future forum community be
36:01
36:01 helpful to you right now?
36:03
36:03 um any anyone that wants to help fund
36:07
36:07 the work that we’re doing. We’re running
36:09
36:09 really fast. We’ve got some amazing
36:12
36:12 funders on board, but we can run faster.
36:15
36:15 >> So, we we want to put it out there. We
36:18
36:18 want to say, you know what, let’s do
36:20
36:20 better than what we’re doing right now
36:22
36:22 and let’s make this available tomorrow
36:25
36:25 and not 10 years down the line.
36:27
36:27 >> Right. So Laura, I’m going to finish
36:29
36:29 with the final question we ask all our
36:31
36:31 guests on tomorrow. Uh, and it’s to ask
36:33
36:33 you to send a memo to the future. Uh, it
36:35
36:35 could be to your future self. It could
36:37
36:37 be to a future innovator or
36:39
36:39 entrepreneur. What would you say?
36:42
36:42 >> I’d say let’s look ahead of the game. So
36:46
36:46 far, we are looking too late at the
36:49
36:49 moment in health care, in treating, in
36:53
36:53 managing conditions that have happened.
36:55
36:55 Let’s look at the time before they
36:57
36:57 happen and try and create a life which
37:01
37:01 is filled with more quality life events
37:05
37:05 than catastrophic events that can change
37:07
37:07 the the projection of how we live and
37:10
37:10 how we work. We can do better. So, let’s
37:13
37:13 get together, let’s fund, let’s
37:15
37:15 innovate, and let’s be curious about
37:17
37:17 this space.
37:20
37:20 >> Thank you so much. That is such a
37:21
37:21 powerful memo. Thank you for everything
37:23
37:23 that you’re doing and uh on behalf of
37:25
37:25 everyone that you’re helping and will
37:27
37:27 help and uh Dr. Laura Ssbury, thank you
37:30
37:30 for joining us on tomorrow.
37:31
37:31 >> Thank you, Ollie.
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