00:00 It’s going to unlock new scientific
00:03
00:03 discovery.
00:03
00:03 >> We can work from anywhere, we can have
00:05
00:05 virtual teams, physical office, doesn’t
00:08
00:08 matter anymore. What do you say to that?
00:10
00:10 >> If you’re situated at the heart of the
00:13
00:13 epicenter of where innovation is
00:14
00:14 happening,
00:16
00:16 that gives your business the best chance
00:18
00:18 of of of succeeding.
00:21
00:21 >> Hello and welcome to Tomorrow, the
00:23
00:23 Future Forum podcast. I’m Molly Barrett
00:26
00:26 and here at Future Forum we’re all about
00:29
00:29 bringing very different people together
00:31
00:31 to shape the future. Different people
00:33
00:33 from different industries and different
00:36
00:36 worlds.
00:37
00:37 Today’s episode is exactly about that.
00:41
00:41 Our guest is Dr. Karim Bahu and he is
00:44
00:44 head of innovation at Circle,
00:47
00:47 Manchester’s Innovation District. So
00:49
00:49 this is someone who spends their days
00:52
00:52 connecting founders, innovators,
00:54
00:54 corporates, investors, universities, a
00:58
00:58 whole blend of people to turn brilliant
01:00
01:00 ideas into real-world
01:03
01:03 action.
01:05
01:05 Uh Karim, welcome to Tomorrow.
01:06
01:06 >> Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure to
01:08
01:08 be here.
01:08
01:08 >> Now Circle has really inspired us at
01:11
01:11 Future Forum for all sorts of reasons
01:13
01:13 which will become very clear.
01:15
01:15 Let’s start with the first question we
01:17
01:17 ask all of our guests. We want a glimpse
01:20
01:20 of the future. When you gaze into the
01:21
01:21 future, paint us a picture of what you
01:24
01:24 see.
01:25
01:25 >> So I’d like to draw reference to two
01:27
01:27 different technologies and it wouldn’t
01:29
01:29 be a
01:29
01:29 podcast about the future if I didn’t
01:31
01:31 mention AI.
01:33
01:33 The other one being engineering biology.
01:35
01:35 So I think what we’re seeing is AI is
01:38
01:38 moving past becoming a, you know, a
01:40
01:40 productivity tool to write your emails.
01:43
01:43 Fast forward to to today and to the
01:45
01:45 future, it’s going to unlock new
01:48
01:48 scientific discovery.
01:49
01:49 And we’re seeing that. So scientific
01:52
01:52 teams working in labs
01:54
01:54 finding out new things that it can only
01:56
01:56 happen because of AI.
01:58
01:58 And a really good example of that is in
01:60
01:60 drug discovery.
02:01
02:01 Which leads on nicely to engineering
02:04
02:04 biology, which I think is another
02:05
02:05 fascinating general purpose technology.
02:08
02:08 So, AI touches all different industries.
02:11
02:11 And we’re seeing that today. And I think
02:13
02:13 that’s also true of engineering biology.
02:16
02:16 So, that is if we understand the genetic
02:19
02:19 code that makes up all of life, so that
02:21
02:21 our DNA,
02:23
02:23 that codes for different proteins. And
02:25
02:25 those proteins can be engineered.
02:28
02:28 And we can create all sorts of things.
02:30
02:30 We can engineer that those biological
02:32
02:32 organisms to do what we want them to do.
02:35
02:35 That could be to make new materials.
02:38
02:38 That could be to serve as drugs for
02:40
02:40 medication for precision medicine.
02:43
02:43 It could be for creating synthetic life
02:46
02:46 forms. So, robots that are made from
02:49
02:49 real living biological material. The
02:51
02:51 possibilities really are endless.
02:53
02:53 >> So, as you describe these different
02:55
02:55 futures,
02:57
02:57 uh we can imagine those playing out
02:59
02:59 inside huge billion-dollar corporations,
03:02
03:02 inside global laboratories, or inside
03:05
03:05 organizations that are much smaller.
03:07
03:07 What are you imagining when you paint
03:09
03:09 that picture?
03:11
03:11 >> So, I think it’s important to recognize
03:13
03:13 that that these developments in
03:16
03:16 technology need to be distributed fairly
03:18
03:18 across all different uh types of
03:20
03:20 organizations. And all so so that
03:23
03:23 benefits of these technologies are
03:24
03:24 shared by all different types of people.
03:27
03:27 What we see with innovators, smaller
03:29
03:29 companies, smaller organizations, is
03:31
03:31 they can move much faster.
03:33
03:33 And
03:34
03:34 if you’re a small business able to move
03:36
03:36 much faster, you’re going to be ahead of
03:37
03:37 the curve. So, I think what we’re seeing
03:39
03:39 is a lot of these larger organizations
03:41
03:41 are opening their eyes and looking to
03:42
03:42 smaller businesses to see what they’re
03:44
03:44 doing to lead the way.
03:46
03:46 >> It already strikes me that you are
03:48
03:48 connecting very different worlds, and
03:51
03:51 that we applaud at Future Forum. To what
03:53
03:53 extent do you feel that you really need
03:56
03:56 to understand these technologies, or is
03:58
03:58 it really your job to connect them?
04:00
04:00 >> I think it’s important to understand it
04:03
04:03 at the deepest level you possibly can.
04:06
04:06 So, my background is technical. I spent
04:08
04:08 um 10 years working in academia. I did a
04:10
04:10 PhD in synthetic organic chemistry. And
04:13
04:13 that it was a very very specialized
04:15
04:15 field and you kind of go down that
04:16
04:16 rabbit hole and become more and more
04:18
04:18 specialized. And what I’ve done now is
04:19
04:19 I’ve zoomed out.
04:21
04:21 But, I think if you ask the right
04:23
04:23 questions, and I think having that
04:24
04:24 technical background does help, cuz when
04:26
04:26 you’re engaging with technical founders,
04:28
04:28 you can ask the right questions. You can
04:30
04:30 you could show more empathy with the
04:31
04:31 pain that they might go through to to
04:33
04:33 try and develop these technologies. But,
04:35
04:35 I think it is important to ask the right
04:37
04:37 questions and go below that surface
04:39
04:39 level. And and that is important. And I
04:41
04:41 think what that technical training,
04:44
04:44 going through academia, that research
04:46
04:46 background does help with
04:48
04:48 is to be able to ask those right
04:50
04:50 questions.
04:51
04:51 >> To to to go beyond the surface.
04:53
04:53 >> So, on the flip side, and forgive me,
04:54
04:54 this is already a bit personal, but what
04:57
04:57 you’ve already revealed is your
04:58
04:58 background wasn’t on the corporate side,
05:00
05:00 on the business or entrepreneurial side.
05:02
05:02 To what extent have you had to gen up on
05:05
05:05 uh those languages as you’ve gone,
05:07
05:07 because you’re in the business of often
05:08
05:08 connecting the two?
05:10
05:10 >> Massively so. Um so, I stepped out of
05:12
05:12 academia uh 5 years ago. And my role in
05:17
05:17 those that point was to try and look for
05:21
05:21 new technologies to solve corporate
05:23
05:23 challenges.
05:24
05:24 So, that I think this comes back to what
05:26
05:26 we were speaking about previously, which
05:27
05:27 was that that corporates are looking for
05:30
05:30 those innovative solutions. So, being
05:31
05:31 able to to speak the language of both
05:34
05:34 the corporates and those innovators that
05:37
05:37 might be spin-outs from the university,
05:39
05:39 might be really technical founders, to
05:41
05:41 try and make that match is a bit of a
05:42
05:42 sweet spot. So, it is talking a
05:44
05:44 different language.
05:45
05:45 >> Yeah, and you do have to be uh
05:46
05:46 multilingual, as you say. So, I think
05:48
05:48 the thing that caught our imagination
05:49
05:49 about Circle was first and foremost it’s
05:51
05:51 a physical place. Okay, this is
05:53
05:53 Manchester. Uh one of the UK’s great
05:56
05:56 cities. It’s more than that though, it’s
05:58
05:58 an ecosystem. So, tell us a bit about
06:00
06:00 it. Give us a Give us the big picture.
06:02
06:02 >> So, Circle it’s a joint venture between
06:04
06:04 Bruntwood SciTech and the University of
06:06
06:06 Manchester. It’s a 15-year project. Now,
06:08
06:08 that blows my mind every time I say it.
06:11
06:11 That’s a long time and it’s 1.7 billion
06:14
06:14 of investment to transform the
06:16
06:16 University of Manchester’s former North
06:18
06:18 Campus into this, as you mentioned, a
06:19
06:19 world-leading innovation district.
06:21
06:21 And what we do at Circle is provide not
06:25
06:25 not only that space, but the environment
06:27
06:27 where we bring investors, we bring
06:29
06:29 corporates, we bring all of our partners
06:31
06:31 under one roof to create that hive of
06:34
06:34 activity to support founders to grow.
06:37
06:37 So, that is incredibly important when
06:39
06:39 you’re a business just starting out. And
06:42
06:42 being a founder can be a really lonely
06:43
06:43 place. So, bringing that sense of
06:45
06:45 community where businesses are
06:48
06:48 co-located
06:49
06:49 alongside like-minded businesses
06:52
06:52 is going to give them the best
06:54
06:54 opportunity to succeed cuz then if
06:56
06:56 you’re making the same mistakes that
06:58
06:58 somebody else has made, if you had a
07:00
07:00 conversation, if you met them over a
07:02
07:02 coffee or met them at an event, you
07:04
07:04 might not make that same mistake. So,
07:06
07:06 >> So, so I don’t want to misjudge this. To
07:08
07:08 what extent is this about
07:10
07:10 small organizations or is it more
07:13
07:13 nuanced than that?
07:14
07:14 >> So, in the first phase of our project,
07:18
07:18 it’s all about early stage businesses
07:20
07:20 and spin-outs from the university and we
07:23
07:23 have a handful of scale-ups as well. So,
07:25
07:25 some businesses that have have scaled
07:27
07:27 internationally, for example, from
07:28
07:28 Ireland.
07:30
07:30 The next phase of our development, we’re
07:31
07:31 going to be working on a much closer
07:34
07:34 basis with large corporates that are
07:37
07:37 looking at Manchester, seeing some of
07:38
07:38 the amazing opportunities in Manchester
07:40
07:40 to relocate their global headquarters
07:43
07:43 and that would be the next phase of that
07:45
07:45 development. And that brings with it
07:46
07:46 some amazing opportunities for that
07:47
07:47 early stage ecosystem.
07:48
07:48 >> Right, there’s also really There’s an
07:50
07:50 interesting transition phase there as
07:52
07:52 well as you segue. I remember visiting
07:54
07:54 Cambridge Innovation Center years ago
07:57
07:57 near Boston and realizing that in
08:00
08:00 neighboring cubicles you’d have this
08:02
08:02 scrappy startup and then a world-leading
08:05
08:05 corporation with a few desks, just a
08:06
08:06 handful, just to almost learn by
08:09
08:09 osmosis.
08:10
08:10 >> Exactly. And so Cambridge Innovation
08:12
08:12 Center, they set up Venture Cafe. So
08:14
08:14 Venture Cafe is one of our partners at
08:16
08:16 SISTER. So they are a global brand
08:19
08:19 everywhere from Boston to Tokyo to
08:21
08:21 Berlin.
08:21
08:21 >> there in Boston.
08:22
08:22 >> Oh, brilliant.
08:23
08:23 >> Yeah, and even then it was a hive of
08:25
08:25 activity.
08:25
08:25 >> Yes, and and they decided to set up in
08:28
08:28 the UK, started with London.
08:30
08:30 Uh then decided they wanted to set up in
08:33
08:33 Manchester. There was a competitive
08:34
08:34 process. They chose SISTER, which we
08:36
08:36 were very pleased about. So every
08:38
08:38 Thursday we run a Thursday gathering.
08:40
08:40 Every week is a different program. You
08:42
08:42 know, we get some
08:43
08:43 world leaders in neurotechnology one day
08:46
08:46 and cybersecurity another. Uh so they
08:48
08:48 put on a program of activity. We get
08:50
08:50 some, you know, really great um
08:52
08:52 recurring kind of customer base that
08:55
08:55 want to come back to to to see what’s
08:57
08:57 happening. And that’s exactly where that
08:59
08:59 magic happens, where those uh
09:00
09:00 conversations are had.
09:02
09:02 >> Right, so this is this is super
09:03
09:03 compelling. I don’t want to just limit
09:05
09:05 myself or ourselves to thinking about
09:07
09:07 this as pure office space. What else is
09:10
09:10 there
09:11
09:11 as part of the space, if you like?
09:12
09:12 >> So if you come into SISTER, I mean
09:15
09:15 SISTER, the the building that that we we
09:17
09:17 run at the moment is is the Renold
09:19
09:19 Innovation Hub. So it’s the
09:21
09:21 uh one of the first purpose-built
09:23
09:23 teaching facilities. So first thing you
09:25
09:25 notice as you come in there’s a huge
09:26
09:26 auditorium. So seats 270 people. We have
09:30
09:30 conferences, events, all sorts of things
09:32
09:32 happening there.
09:33
09:33 As you go into the cafe, that’s what we
09:35
09:35 call the the flex space. So again,
09:37
09:37 that’s where you have your informal
09:38
09:38 networking. We’ve had panel discussions.
09:40
09:40 This There’s a lot happening on the on
09:42
09:42 the event side.
09:43
09:43 >> What about laboratories? Are there
09:44
09:44 things that some of these scientific
09:46
09:46 innovators might want?
09:48
09:48 >> So, we have a neighboring building
09:49
09:49 called Pariser. And Pariser is uh is
09:53
09:53 being used for as a test bed to Kraken.
09:55
09:55 And Concrete into Concrete into spin out
09:57
09:57 from the University of Manchester. And
09:59
09:59 they do analytical testing to
10:01
10:01 understand, you know, how adding
10:03
10:03 graphene to concrete will strengthen it.
10:05
10:05 Kraken have a testing facility that they
10:08
10:08 use for charging of EVs and uh and uh
10:12
10:12 energy technologies of the future. So,
10:14
10:14 that’s our
10:16
10:16 test bed, if you like, where where
10:17
10:17 there’s lots of different workshop type
10:19
10:19 activity happening.
10:20
10:20 >> How do you as a team help people to find
10:23
10:23 each other? Cuz that’s half the trick.
10:26
10:26 >> So, we we can leave it to chance,
10:29
10:29 which we prefer not to do, but we create
10:31
10:31 the spaces where that serendipity can
10:33
10:33 happen.
10:35
10:35 What I have as in my role as head of
10:37
10:37 innovation is a personal relationship
10:39
10:39 with every one of the 65 businesses that
10:42
10:42 are based at Circle. So, I meet with
10:43
10:43 them regularly. Um and I’m their first
10:46
10:46 port of call. So, if they’re looking to
10:47
10:47 be connected into the wider ecosystem of
10:49
10:49 support, they’ll come to me or one of my
10:51
10:51 team. And we’ll we’ll typically cuz
10:54
10:54 Manchester, it’s it’s large enough to be
10:56
10:56 relevant, but small enough that you you
10:58
10:58 know all the people that matter.
11:00
11:00 So, they’ll come to come to us, and we
11:02
11:02 can connect them into the university if
11:04
11:04 it’s academic support or or the access
11:06
11:06 to some of the innovation assets of the
11:07
11:07 university.
11:09
11:09 Or with the wider network of support on
11:11
11:11 offer through investor connections.
11:13
11:13 We’ve done a lot of work to try and
11:14
11:14 bring investors into this space cuz
11:15
11:15 that’s quite often what a an early-stage
11:17
11:17 business needs is investment.
11:20
11:20 But also on the on the customer side.
11:23
11:23 So, I’m really pleased to announce in 2
11:25
11:25 weeks’ time we’re launching a
11:27
11:27 partnership with
11:29
11:29 Innovation Exchange. They’re based in
11:31
11:31 Ireland, and they have a network of six
11:33
11:33 hubs in Ireland. It’s a really great SME
11:36
11:36 community across those six hubs and they
11:37
11:37 work with Irish corporates that have an
11:40
11:40 innovation challenge and they work with
11:43
11:43 those corporates to understand in detail
11:45
11:45 and catalog exactly what that challenge
11:46
11:46 is. And then they put that out to the
11:48
11:48 SME community and they go through a
11:50
11:50 competitive process.
11:51
11:51 >> That’s interesting. Yeah.
11:52
11:52 >> So it’s a pinch of plug and play from
11:54
11:54 the west coast of the US, a pinch of
11:56
11:56 probably X prize.
11:57
11:57 >> Mhm. Yeah.
11:58
11:58 >> of challenge prizes. Similar similar
11:59
11:59 programs, definitely. Yeah. They’re
12:01
12:01 looking to scale into the UK. So we’re
12:03
12:03 partnering with them to enable them to
12:05
12:05 do that. Bringing with it Irish
12:07
12:07 corporates and their challenges, which
12:08
12:08 is a great opportunity for
12:09
12:09 >> Really interesting to see in Manchester.
12:11
12:11 >> So I set you
12:13
12:13 a challenge Grain before we met, which
12:14
12:14 was I’d love to help us bring to life by
12:17
12:17 way of example just two or three of the
12:19
12:19 companies that currently call Sister
12:20
12:20 Home. So where where are you taking us?
12:23
12:23 >> So the first one I’m going to take you
12:24
12:24 to outer space.
12:26
12:26 Um so we have an amazing business called
12:28
12:28 Space Systems.
12:30
12:30 So I the founder Omar is incredible,
12:33
12:33 incredibly passionate about satellite
12:35
12:35 technology, communications technology.
12:38
12:38 And they build and manufacture
12:40
12:40 satellites and we were discussing
12:43
12:43 potentially building a satellite and
12:45
12:45 sending that into to space. So how
12:47
12:47 amazing would that be to have a
12:49
12:49 satellite built at Sister and sent into
12:51
12:51 space? So they they started off with a
12:54
12:54 small team, three people, and now 15 and
12:56
12:56 they’re expecting to double that by the
12:57
12:57 end of this year. So up to about 30
12:59
12:59 people. So they’re They’ve just won a
13:01
13:01 lot of grant funding. They’re they’re
13:03
13:03 expanding their team, they’re expanding
13:05
13:05 their manufacturing capacity. And they
13:08
13:08 put satellites into low earth orbit to
13:11
13:11 to image the earth to help advise on
13:15
13:15 where possible risks or flooding might
13:17
13:17 be taking place. And that’s all
13:18
13:18 connected to an app. So I I’ve seen the
13:21
13:21 app, you just pull it up and you can see
13:22
13:22 the earth, zoom in, and you can see
13:24
13:24 where there’s a potential risk or where
13:26
13:26 floods are happening across the world.
13:27
13:27 >> We need to get down to Future Forum. So,
13:29
13:29 this is Space Systems and without giving
13:31
13:31 away any secrets, when you sit down for
13:33
13:33 coffee with Omar,
13:35
13:35 who does he want to meet?
13:36
13:36 >> So, Omar’s
13:38
13:38 been working very closely with other
13:41
13:41 universities across the across the UK.
13:44
13:44 And Omar is very keen about trying to
13:46
13:46 set up research programs with the
13:48
13:48 university. So, we’ve been having lots
13:50
13:50 of conversations with the university.
13:52
13:52 He’s very keen to
13:54
13:54 to be speaking to some of the graduates
13:56
13:56 coming from the university as well. So,
13:58
13:58 Omar’s needs are collaborative R&D and
14:01
14:01 talent. So, the next company I’d like to
14:03
14:03 talk about is is NeWave. NeWave is a
14:05
14:05 really good example of where AI is being
14:08
14:08 used to solve real industry problems.
14:11
14:11 >> And I should say for our listener, this
14:13
14:13 is N E U Wave, isn’t it?
14:14
14:14 >> Correct. Yes. And
14:17
14:17 So, NeWave
14:18
14:18 the founding team did their PhDs in
14:20
14:20 computer science at the University of
14:22
14:22 Manchester.
14:24
14:24 Incredibly talented bunch. And what
14:26
14:26 they’ve
14:27
14:27 been working very hard to do is to model
14:30
14:30 oceanography, so model the ocean
14:32
14:32 using their AI platform. And they’ve
14:35
14:35 been doing this off the coast of the UK
14:37
14:37 and across the world.
14:39
14:39 And they can and they were and their
14:40
14:40 initial part of their journey was to try
14:42
14:42 and understand well, what does that what
14:44
14:44 can that tell them?
14:45
14:45 So, they’ve been using that to advise on
14:48
14:48 the best place to locate offshore wind
14:51
14:51 farms. Which is incredible, right? Or if
14:53
14:53 you’re looking if you’re an
14:55
14:55 infrastructure provider and you’re
14:56
14:56 looking to lay subsea cables,
14:59
14:59 they’re working over in Canada to try
15:01
15:01 and identify the best windows with which
15:03
15:03 to do that.
15:05
15:05 Or if you’re a shipping company,
15:07
15:07 you can save a hell of a lot of money on
15:10
15:10 logistics on on shipping
15:12
15:12 goods by just choosing the right the
15:15
15:15 correct route to take. So, that their
15:17
15:17 platform is enabling a whole host of
15:19
15:19 different applications.
15:20
15:20 >> Right. And it reminds us of a part of
15:22
15:22 your job, which is understanding what
15:24
15:24 the problem being solved is, but then
15:26
15:26 being quite creative and open-minded
15:28
15:28 about who might find that useful.
15:30
15:30 >> Exactly. So, when you’re trying to find
15:32
15:32 customers, okay, you’ve got this
15:33
15:33 technology.
15:35
15:35 It just so happened in a previous life I
15:37
15:37 did a
15:38
15:38 project all around maritime.
15:40
15:40 Uh trying to understand different
15:42
15:42 technologies that would go on vessels.
15:44
15:44 So, I had some connections in the
15:45
15:45 maritime industry and was was able to
15:47
15:47 connect Janna, the the founder, into to
15:50
15:50 some of those connections.
15:52
15:52 >> Right. So, this is New Wave, so clearly
15:53
15:53 they want to speak to could be energy
15:55
15:55 companies, could be governments,
15:56
15:56 additional funders. Let’s do one final
15:58
15:58 one cuz I don’t want to switch it up a
15:60
15:60 bit.
16:01
16:01 >> So, the last one I’d like to mention is
16:02
16:02 Ambizo.
16:03
16:03 So, Ambizo again, they’re actually a
16:06
16:06 recent customer at Sister, which so I’ve
16:09
16:09 been really enjoying getting to know
16:11
16:11 Zoha and Heather, the founders of
16:13
16:13 Ambizo. So, they’ve now scaled also to
16:14
16:14 around 30 people. So, they’re doing a
16:16
16:16 fantastic job and they’re all in they’re
16:19
16:19 in the area of data science and
16:20
16:20 healthcare. So,
16:22
16:22 they are taking genetic information,
16:25
16:25 they are taking um
16:27
16:27 different biomarkers and using that to
16:30
16:30 inform how healthcare should be applied
16:33
16:33 to different populations. So, they’re a
16:35
16:35 data science company at heart, but
16:37
16:37 they’re using the application of the
16:39
16:39 data that they’re able to access to
16:41
16:41 inform how treatment should be made.
16:44
16:44 >> And you hinted
16:46
16:46 earlier that these early stage companies
16:48
16:48 can be more nimble, they can move
16:50
16:50 quicker.
16:51
16:51 I suppose the fact remains they are
16:54
16:54 from one angle at least up against some
16:57
16:57 global pharma companies. So, what do you
16:59
16:59 think continues, other than that point
17:01
17:01 about agility and speed, continues to
17:04
17:04 put a spring in the step of a company
17:06
17:06 like Ambizo?
17:07
17:07 >> I think it’s the pace of development of
17:10
17:10 the technology itself. So, while
17:11
17:11 sometimes
17:13
17:13 you when you’re working with larger
17:14
17:14 organizations or perhaps, you know,
17:16
17:16 they’re looking to try and sell to the
17:18
17:18 NHS, typically quite slow to to
17:20
17:20 innovate. That can be a challenge for an
17:23
17:23 early stage business. But, I think the
17:25
17:25 fact that they can continue to iterate
17:27
17:27 and improve
17:28
17:28 on a daily basis because the technology
17:31
17:31 is evolving so quickly. What you can do
17:33
17:33 today, you just wouldn’t have been able
17:35
17:35 to do just a year or 2 years ago.
17:37
17:37 >> What do you say, Karim, to someone who
17:39
17:39 says, “Well, the thing is, technology,
17:42
17:42 uh digital opportunities are now global.
17:45
17:45 Uh we can work from anywhere. We can
17:46
17:46 have virtual teams. And the good news
17:49
17:49 about that is place, space, physical
17:52
17:52 office doesn’t matter anymore.” What do
17:54
17:54 you say to that?
17:55
17:55 >> I would disagree.
17:57
17:57 I would disagree. Um I think one of the
17:60
17:60 best things you can do as a founder
18:02
18:02 is surround yourself by like-minded
18:05
18:05 people.
18:07
18:07 There is a benefit to having remote
18:09
18:09 teams. It can be a lower cost base. And
18:12
18:12 we see this all the time, you know,
18:14
18:14 Zoom calls
18:16
18:16 are great. But, there’s only so far that
18:18
18:18 can go. I think it’s those chance
18:21
18:21 interactions next to the coffee machine.
18:24
18:24 If you’re situated at the heart of the
18:26
18:26 epicenter of where innovation is
18:28
18:28 happening,
18:29
18:29 that gives your business the best chance
18:31
18:31 of of of succeeding.
18:33
18:33 >> Yeah, I mean, it’s such an interesting
18:35
18:35 thought that that word serendipity is
18:37
18:37 the is all about the idea of something
18:40
18:40 being unexpected.
18:41
18:41 >> Mhm.
18:41
18:41 >> And so often our virtual environments
18:43
18:43 are so much more deliberate, aren’t
18:44
18:44 they?
18:44
18:44 >> Exactly. Exactly. And and we’ve all got
18:47
18:47 regular meetings in the diary on Zoom
18:49
18:49 calls. And sometimes you don’t need a
18:52
18:52 meeting. Sometimes you just need to walk
18:53
18:53 past somebody in the office or in the
18:56
18:56 cafe. And you’ve you’ve got what you
18:59
18:59 need, they’ve got what they need. And
19:01
19:01 then you’ve got more opportunity, more
19:03
19:03 chance to to to go further, to go
19:06
19:06 deeper.
19:06
19:06 >> And um not that you need reminding of
19:09
19:09 this, to bump into them multiple times.
19:11
19:11 >> Exactly. It’s about relationship
19:13
19:13 building. and and one that I think is
19:15
19:15 really important to do that it
19:17
19:17 is is investors. So, having important
19:21
19:21 people in the space where you work that
19:23
19:23 you just
19:25
19:25 stumble across and you start to build
19:27
19:27 those relationships, those friendships
19:28
19:28 even.
19:29
19:29 >> There is a point to be made about
19:30
19:30 reputation and about presence in a
19:33
19:33 location over time to become trusted and
19:36
19:36 to attract opportunities. You can’t
19:37
19:37 expect that to happen in an instance.
19:40
19:40 >> Yeah. You you need to you need to build
19:41
19:41 that trust before you’ve even got
19:43
19:43 anything to pitch. Whether it’s a
19:44
19:44 customer or an investor, you you you
19:47
19:47 meet them, you get to know them as
19:49
19:49 individuals, as humans, as people.
19:51
19:51 And when you’re ready to raise some
19:54
19:54 money or to sell a product, you know who
19:56
19:56 they are, you know what they what what
19:58
19:58 their investment thesis is or what their
19:60
20:00 pain points are as a potential customer,
20:02
20:02 but that starts way before you’re
20:04
20:04 actually ready to pitch or anything.
20:06
20:06 >> So, presumably of course what you’re
20:08
20:08 doing matters at SETsquared, but
20:10
20:10 presumably the bigger corporates or the
20:12
20:12 best corporates are the ones that
20:13
20:13 succeed in cultivating their own um
20:17
20:17 methods if you like of interacting with
20:19
20:19 uh the innovator, the small company.
20:21
20:21 Anyone that comes to mind that you think
20:23
20:23 does that well? Does anyone light up in
20:25
20:25 your brain?
20:26
20:26 >> So, it
20:27
20:27 corporates traditionally are very slow
20:31
20:31 to innovate.
20:33
20:33 And I think all corporates around the
20:35
20:35 world are recognizing that they can’t
20:37
20:37 stand still with the rate of technology
20:40
20:40 change. Um one corporate that I I I
20:43
20:43 guess it’s not a corporate in the truest
20:45
20:45 sense of the word, Sellafield.
20:48
20:48 Sellafield traditionally is a very
20:50
20:50 opaque organization. Um
20:52
20:52 >> So, I’m thinking now of the of a power
20:54
20:54 station.
20:54
20:54 >> So, Sellafield
20:55
20:55 >> Historically associated with nuclear.
20:56
20:56 >> Historically uh generating nuclear
20:59
20:59 energy, now a
21:01
21:01 facility that handles new nuclear waste,
21:05
21:05 but also legacy nuclear waste of which
21:07
21:07 there there is a lot.
21:09
21:09 It’s a very hazardous site. Some of the
21:12
21:12 largest stores of plutonium and uranium
21:15
21:15 in the world.
21:16
21:16 Incredibly hazardous.
21:18
21:18 And for a very long time, they were a
21:20
21:20 very opaque organization, very guarded,
21:23
21:23 and rightly so in some ways cuz it’s
21:26
21:26 that that that could potentially be used
21:29
21:29 for
21:30
21:30 a terrorist attack. And and and if if
21:33
21:33 that material was in the wrong hands,
21:35
21:35 that would be disastrous.
21:38
21:38 They’ve had to undergo a complete change
21:40
21:40 as an organization,
21:42
21:42 become a lot more transparent,
21:45
21:45 and recognize that they can’t solve all
21:47
21:47 of the problems themselves.
21:49
21:49 So, a program that I worked on called
21:50
21:50 Game Changers was exactly that. So, we
21:53
21:53 were working very closely with the
21:54
21:54 technical teams at Sellafield to
21:57
21:57 understand what their challenges were.
21:59
21:59 And that’s that requires a lot to air
22:01
22:01 your dirty laundry, to say these are the
22:03
22:03 things that we can’t do. And that could
22:05
22:05 be of national significance, in fact.
22:08
22:08 Write that challenge in a way, present
22:10
22:10 that challenge to the public, to the to
22:12
22:12 the SME communities in a way that they
22:15
22:15 were able to understand what that
22:16
22:16 challenge was on a technical level.
22:19
22:19 And then go and search for some of the
22:22
22:22 best solutions to try and solve that.
22:24
22:24 >> It makes me want to have a tomorrow
22:26
22:26 uh breakfast or dinner party with our
22:28
22:28 other guests because this resonates with
22:30
22:30 what Siobhan Haviland, who leads the
22:31
22:31 British Chambers of Commerce, was saying
22:33
22:33 about helping large complex
22:35
22:35 organizations manage their supply
22:36
22:36 chains.
22:37
22:37 >> Yes. Yeah.
22:37
22:37 >> It resonates with our colleagues like
22:40
22:40 Dougie in the advertising industry
22:42
22:42 saying the problem as articulated
22:44
22:44 initially by the client isn’t always the
22:46
22:46 real problem.
22:47
22:47 >> Yes.
22:48
22:48 >> So, it’s about discovery through
22:49
22:49 conversation.
22:50
22:50 >> Uh well, I think it’s
22:52
22:52 you if you think about procurement,
22:54
22:54 quite often you say I want a widget that
22:56
22:56 does this rather than what is it that
22:59
22:59 you’re trying to solve cuz it might not
23:00
23:00 be the the original widget that you went
23:02
23:02 out looking for. So, I think that’s the
23:04
23:04 beauty in in going out and casting the
23:06
23:06 net much wider because the the solution
23:08
23:08 might be from a completely different
23:10
23:10 industry
23:11
23:11 that you didn’t think could solve your
23:13
23:13 problem. Right.
23:14
23:14 >> And it also reframes the idea of for a
23:16
23:16 startup of going back to the drawing
23:17
23:17 board not as failure but of tuning into
23:19
23:19 what the real problem is.
23:20
23:20 >> Yeah, trying to understand your customer
23:23
23:23 on a deeper level.
23:24
23:24 >> Um
23:25
23:25 So, Karim, I’ve got some quick-fire uh
23:27
23:27 questions but they do involve uh picking
23:29
23:29 numbers between 1 and 10.
23:31
23:31 Uh so, uh pick a number between 1 and
23:33
23:33 10.
23:33
23:33 >> Five.
23:34
23:34 >> Here we are. What’s a skill that will
23:36
23:36 become more valuable over the next
23:38
23:38 decade?
23:39
23:39 >> I think
23:41
23:41 the ability to remain open to change.
23:46
23:46 And I think if you’re open to learning
23:49
23:49 new things and remaining curious,
23:52
23:52 then
23:53
23:53 all of the chaos that’s happening, you
23:55
23:55 can adapt with that.
23:57
23:57 >> Yeah, totally agree. And let’s see that
23:60
23:60 trickle down if that’s the right phrase
24:01
24:01 into our schools and education systems
24:03
24:03 as well, right?
24:04
24:04 >> Yes, I hope so.
24:05
24:05 >> Uh pick another number.
24:06
24:06 >> Eight.
24:07
24:07 >> What’s one thing that Britain gets
24:08
24:08 right?
24:09
24:09 >> I think, and this might be
24:11
24:11 controversial, I think we do get
24:13
24:13 innovation right in many ways. There’s a
24:16
24:16 lot of negativity that surrounds the UK.
24:19
24:19 And I think we punch above our weight
24:21
24:21 when it comes to innovation. If we just
24:24
24:24 look at some of the amazing companies
24:26
24:26 based here in in the UK,
24:29
24:29 here in London, there’s some incredible
24:31
24:31 global headquarters of some incredible
24:34
24:34 businesses,
24:35
24:35 and we should celebrate that.
24:37
24:37 >> Yeah, and actually if you look at
24:39
24:39 um
24:39
24:39 indexes around the world, especially
24:41
24:41 around startup ecosystem, startup
24:43
24:43 genomes, genomes research, we really do
24:46
24:46 uh in kind of terms of innovations, new
24:48
24:48 patents registers, we’re right up there.
24:50
24:50 >> The OECD reported recently that we are
24:53
24:53 third in the world for producing
24:54
24:54 startups, which is amazing, behind only
24:56
24:56 the US and China, and they are
24:58
24:58 populations much, much greater than our
25:00
25:00 own.
25:00
25:00 >> Mhm. Um, pick one final number.
25:04
25:04 >> One.
25:05
25:05 >> Number one. Uh, oh, here we are. What’s
25:07
25:07 the technology that most people are
25:09
25:09 underestimating?
25:11
25:11 >> So, synthetic biology, sometimes called
25:12
25:12 engineering biology.
25:14
25:14 People, I think, when they hear
25:16
25:16 synthetic biology, they think it’s it’s
25:19
25:19 a niche technology.
25:21
25:21 But, I think what people fail to
25:22
25:22 recognize is it it is also, like AI, a
25:26
25:26 general purpose technology. You’ll be
25:28
25:28 able to make clothes, you’ll be able to
25:30
25:30 make tables, you’ll be able to solve
25:33
25:33 disease, you’ll be able to
25:35
25:35 make robots. There’s
25:38
25:38 it’s a general purpose technology, and
25:39
25:39 that means it’s going to touch a whole
25:41
25:41 host of different industries.
25:43
25:43 >> Also, it sounds a bit like an invitation
25:46
25:46 when you frame it like that. In other
25:47
25:47 words, not just tune in to the world of
25:51
25:51 synthetic biology. Have I said that
25:52
25:52 right?
25:53
25:53 >> Yes.
25:53
25:53 >> Yeah, synthetic biology. Um, and that’s
25:56
25:56 worth keeping tabs on. It’s more than
25:58
25:58 that, isn’t it? It’s like this could
25:60
25:60 present a real opportunity for you in
26:02
26:02 whatever your sector happens to be.
26:04
26:04 >> I think so, exactly that. And, uh,
26:06
26:06 Capgemini produced a report on this, and
26:09
26:09 they
26:10
26:10 interviewed, uh,
26:12
26:12 global execs, and it was surprising the
26:15
26:15 results of how many are actually
26:17
26:17 starting to think about it in industries
26:19
26:19 you just completely would not have
26:20
26:20 thought about.
26:21
26:21 >> I think it’s fascinating to see which
26:24
26:24 dots aren’t joined, and to think about
26:26
26:26 why. Why do you think that is the case
26:29
26:29 that there isn’t that flow between those
26:30
26:30 cities?
26:32
26:32 >> Really good question. I think you can
26:34
26:34 you can answer it from a sort of a
26:36
26:36 ground-up perspective.
26:39
26:39 Are we having conversations with our
26:42
26:42 colleagues in Leeds? Are we having any
26:43
26:43 conversations with our colleagues in
26:45
26:45 Sheffield? Um, I think we can do a lot
26:48
26:48 more on the ground to make sure that’s
26:50
26:50 happening.
26:51
26:51 >> Mhm.
26:52
26:52 >> And then I think there’s the top-down
26:53
26:53 perspective as well. Are the Are there
26:55
26:55 the correct policy incentives? Or if you
26:58
26:58 think about how funding is often issued
27:00
27:00 for different initiatives to stimulate
27:02
27:02 growth, it’s quite often
27:05
27:05 located by geography.
27:07
27:07 >> Yeah, it’s ring-fenced.
27:08
27:08 >> It’s ring-fenced exactly to, you know,
27:09
27:09 the GMCA combined authority. They have
27:11
27:11 money that is for the combined
27:13
27:13 authority, so the temporary is of of of
27:15
27:15 Manchester Greater Manchester. So,
27:18
27:18 that disincentivizes this collaboration,
27:21
27:21 this partnership between different
27:23
27:23 regions across the UK. So, I think
27:24
27:24 there’s sort of two ways you can tackle
27:26
27:26 that problem.
27:27
27:27 >> Well, so firstly on social capital,
27:29
27:29 without a doubt, if those individuals
27:31
27:31 don’t know each other,
27:33
27:33 then then what we’re describing what
27:34
27:34 you’re describing can’t happen.
27:36
27:36 Presumably there’s something in
27:37
27:37 infrastructure there as well.
27:39
27:39 >> Yes, and I
27:41
27:41 start to sound like Andy Burnham
27:42
27:42 campaigning for for trains and
27:44
27:44 connectivity, but I think it there is a
27:45
27:45 really important point there around
27:47
27:47 connectivity across the UK.
27:49
27:49 >> Yeah, and we would see that between
27:50
27:50 Leeds and Manchester. We’d also see it
27:51
27:51 obviously between Oxford and Cambridge
27:53
27:53 and lots of other great cities in the
27:55
27:55 UK, right?
27:56
27:56 >> Yes,
27:57
27:57 so what’s what’s interesting to me is do
28:00
28:00 Manchester have a partnership with
28:03
28:03 Cambridge?
28:04
28:04 Which is amazing to see. So, I think if
28:06
28:06 you look at the strengths of Manchester
28:08
28:08 and if you look at the strengths of
28:10
28:10 of Cambridge, there was a lot of
28:11
28:11 complementarity between the two.
28:15
28:15 However, to get to Cambridge,
28:18
28:18 you’ve got to go all the way to London
28:20
28:20 and then back out to Cambridge. And it’s
28:21
28:21 very difficult to get across, so I think
28:23
28:23 that’s a challenge.
28:25
28:25 >> [laughter]
28:25
28:25 >> I
28:26
28:26 I have been on the receiving end of
28:27
28:27 quite a bit of pressure over the years
28:29
28:29 not to do certain gatherings in London
28:32
28:32 only to choose a non-London city and be
28:35
28:35 complained at for the next 2 days
28:37
28:37 >> [laughter]
28:37
28:37 >> for hosting it in said city. I’m not
28:38
28:38 talking about Manchester now.
28:40
28:40 Um
28:41
28:41 it’s really interesting, isn’t it?
28:42
28:42 Because that also sparks us into
28:44
28:44 thinking what other vehicles,
28:46
28:46 instruments, mechanisms might spring up
28:49
28:49 which incentivized
28:51
28:51 city funders, if you like, if I can put
28:53
28:53 it like that, to invest more broadly
28:55
28:55 geographically.
28:56
28:56 Because if you think about it as a
28:58
28:58 network, we could also activate the
29:00
29:00 network as scouts for opportunities as
29:02
29:02 well.
29:03
29:03 >> Mhm.
29:04
29:04 Yeah, I I I think there are
29:06
29:06 I mean
29:07
29:07 we can connect virtually too, and that’s
29:09
29:09 one thing that’s important to recognize.
29:11
29:11 I mean, sister, we do a lot of work at
29:13
29:13 to bring people in and I think there
29:14
29:14 there is a huge importance of that
29:16
29:16 in-person connection.
29:18
29:18 But virtually we can connect too, and I
29:20
29:20 think that is a an opportunity to start
29:22
29:22 to do that. And if you if you bring
29:24
29:24 people together virtually
29:26
29:26 and that can be the seed to then start
29:28
29:28 to bring people together in person.
29:30
29:30 >> Right. Yeah. Weirdly, I think that’s I
29:33
29:33 mean, maybe seed of an idea, it’s how
29:35
29:35 countries ought to be thinking, it’s how
29:37
29:37 cities ought to be thinking, certainly
29:38
29:38 how innovation districts ought to be
29:40
29:40 thinking. In other words, how can I help
29:43
29:43 and benefit from sister without
29:45
29:45 physically experiencing it?
29:47
29:47 >> Well,
29:48
29:48 we have a membership, so you’re very
29:49
29:49 welcome to join and we that’s part of
29:52
29:52 our plans to be a global innovation
29:54
29:54 district. So, I think
29:56
29:56 there needs to be a fabric, a virtual
29:59
29:59 fabric, if you like, that brings all of
30:01
30:01 this together.
30:02
30:02 One amazing partnership that we have is
30:04
30:04 is Venture Cafe. And Venture Cafe is a
30:07
30:07 global brand. They started over in
30:10
30:10 Boston in the US and they’ve spread
30:12
30:12 across to Warsaw, to Berlin, to Tokyo,
30:16
30:16 to London, and then to Manchester, which
30:18
30:18 we’re
30:19
30:19 really proud of. We we have a regular
30:21
30:21 Thursday gathering, but they have that
30:24
30:24 that global connectivity. So, that is
30:26
30:26 part of that global fabric that we’re
30:28
30:28 able to tap into.
30:29
30:29 >> I’m very interested in that idea of
30:30
30:30 partners. Let’s think of another one or
30:32
30:32 two organizations that you’re working
30:34
30:34 with.
30:34
30:34 >> So, one of our joint venture partners,
30:37
30:37 of course, is the University of
30:38
30:38 Manchester, but more specifically
30:41
30:41 uh
30:42
30:42 So, Unitem was set up to try and solve
30:45
30:45 some of the major challenges around how
30:48
30:48 you can access support at the
30:49
30:49 university, how you can access or tap
30:51
30:51 into the different innovation assets
30:54
30:54 that exist. So, if we take the
30:55
30:55 University of Manchester, there’s the
30:57
30:57 Masood Entrepreneurship Centre, there’s
30:59
30:59 the Innovation Factory, there’s the
31:00
31:00 Turing Innovation Capital, and the list
31:02
31:02 goes on. They think they’ve identified
31:03
31:03 about 30 different departments,
31:06
31:06 which are all amazing assets, all doing
31:08
31:08 incredible work,
31:10
31:10 but it can feel quite
31:13
31:13 disjointed, and it can feel a challenge
31:15
31:15 if you’re a founder trying to navigate
31:16
31:16 some of those.
31:17
31:17 >> if you didn’t have one front door, it
31:18
31:18 would be 30 doors.
31:20
31:20 >> Exactly. So, we’re working very closely
31:22
31:22 with with Unitem. The way I like to
31:24
31:24 think about it, if you’ve got this this
31:26
31:26 island which has incredible talent and
31:28
31:28 incredible innovation happening,
31:31
31:31 we’ve we’ve now got a bridge that
31:33
31:33 connects some one end of that bridge you
31:34
31:34 have Unitem, on the other end of the
31:36
31:36 bridge you’ve got sister connecting into
31:37
31:37 the wider innovation ecosystem. Uh so,
31:41
31:41 it was one of our
31:42
31:42 partners we have regular drop-in
31:43
31:43 sessions with Unitem to try and connect
31:45
31:45 our founders into that support.
31:46
31:46 >> university. And then I was going to say,
31:48
31:48 who’s that available to? Can you Can I
31:49
31:49 walk in off the street in Manchester?
31:51
31:51 Can I go and say hello to
31:52
31:52 >> Anyone. Uh so, anyone can can engage
31:54
31:54 with the university. You don’t need to
31:56
31:56 be an alumnus of the university. Uh any
31:59
31:59 business, whether you have a connection
32:01
32:01 at all to Manchester or not,
32:03
32:03 can can can gain support through the
32:05
32:05 university.
32:06
32:06 >> Right, really interesting. And Unitem,
32:07
32:07 we will link to that in our notes as
32:10
32:10 well. What’s something that you think
32:12
32:12 we as a country, and in particular
32:14
32:14 government, could do that would unlock
32:16
32:16 more innovation across the UK?
32:19
32:19 >> I’m going to steal a policy suggestion
32:22
32:22 that was discussed
32:24
32:24 uh on a recent round table that sister
32:26
32:26 hosted, and
32:28
32:28 uh Tom McGee, associate director at
32:30
32:30 TechUK, um um
32:32
32:32 told me about a policy suggestion that
32:34
32:34 they’re working with UK private capital
32:35
32:35 on,
32:36
32:36 which was
32:38
32:38 So, as a founder scales and exits a
32:40
32:40 business,
32:42
32:42 they then receive capital gains tax.
32:45
32:45 What What would be a great policy
32:46
32:46 incentive is if they were if they would
32:49
32:49 deciding to to reinvest that money into
32:51
32:51 early-stage businesses
32:53
32:53 and provide mentorship and and uh
32:55
32:55 partnership opportunities as well.
32:58
32:58 That would be a great way of stimulating
33:00
33:00 this ecosystem. I think that’s why
33:02
33:02 places like Silicon Valley have been so
33:03
33:03 successful. They have this culture where
33:06
33:06 businesses have grown and scaled, and
33:08
33:08 that wealth is then fed back into the
33:11
33:11 next generation of of of businesses that
33:13
33:13 are just starting up.
33:14
33:14 >> Right. And there’s a cultural point
33:15
33:15 there about Silicon Valley. What you’re
33:17
33:17 hinting at there that was some sort of
33:19
33:19 tax or policy incentive that makes it
33:21
33:21 even more of a no-brainer to do that.
33:22
33:22 >> Exactly. A a capital gains tax relief on
33:25
33:25 that founder, that individual that’s
33:27
33:27 that it provided they give that money
33:28
33:28 back to that next generation of of
33:30
33:30 businesses.
33:31
33:31 >> We use the phrase a lot, Kareem, leave
33:34
33:34 your lane at Feed Forward, the idea of
33:36
33:36 learning from different industries,
33:38
33:38 different sectors.
33:41
33:41 You may have to do that on a daily basis
33:43
33:43 with your day job. Does that phrase What
33:45
33:45 does that phrase mean to you?
33:47
33:47 >> That phrase really resonates with me,
33:49
33:49 actually.
33:51
33:51 If we go back into to my background, I
33:54
33:54 did natural sciences university. So, I
33:56
33:56 did biomedical sciences,
33:58
33:58 bit of maths,
33:59
33:59 and
34:01
34:01 chemistry, but predominantly synthetic
34:02
34:02 organic chemistry. So, I’ve always liked
34:05
34:05 to to to leave my lane by looking to
34:09
34:09 different scientific areas, and I’ve
34:10
34:10 always been interested, fascinated by
34:13
34:13 science, not just chemistry, even though
34:14
34:14 that was my sort of deep expertise.
34:17
34:17 Through my journey in academia, you
34:19
34:19 could become more and more and more
34:20
34:20 specialized, which is sometimes needed.
34:23
34:23 You go really deep into that particular
34:25
34:25 subject.
34:26
34:26 But I’ve needed to leave my lane as I’ve
34:28
34:28 left academia to engage with
34:31
34:31 businesses from all different walks of
34:33
34:33 life
34:34
34:34 and all different technology fields as
34:36
34:36 well. So, I think leaving your lane can
34:38
34:38 not only in a technology or scientific
34:42
34:42 discipline sense, but
34:44
34:44 engaging with different people,
34:45
34:45 different you know, making connections
34:47
34:47 with people from different walks of
34:48
34:48 life. I think that’s really important to
34:50
34:50 >> Yeah, and it’s completely essential. As
34:52
34:52 you’re building sister, who who inspires
34:54
34:54 you? Who are you looking to either
34:55
34:55 around the UK, around the world for
34:57
34:57 sources of inspiration? Does anyone come
34:59
34:59 to your mind? Does anyone crop up in
35:01
35:01 conversation when you’re thinking of who
35:03
35:03 you might role model or or learn from, I
35:05
35:05 suppose?
35:06
35:06 >> So, there are a few globally this this
35:09
35:09 obviously spaces
35:11
35:11 in Station F, I think is is one of the
35:14
35:14 main points of reference a lot. One that
35:17
35:17 my colleague went to visit recently is
35:20
35:20 is in in Belgium called Winter Circus.
35:24
35:24 And what I really like about Winter
35:26
35:26 Circus is it has a lots of the sha- same
35:29
35:29 same shared values as with sister.
35:32
35:32 What we have is an opportunity to engage
35:34
35:34 the community. We at sister are right
35:38
35:38 next to Brunswick and Ardwick and
35:39
35:39 they’re some of the most deprived
35:40
35:40 boroughs in in Manchester.
35:43
35:43 And so, it’s an opportunity to bring the
35:45
35:45 local community on that journey. We have
35:47
35:47 a goal of creating 10,000 new jobs.
35:50
35:50 Those should be jobs for for everyone in
35:53
35:53 in some of the poorest areas of
35:55
35:55 Manchester and there’s a really similar
35:56
35:56 mission-orientated
35:59
35:59 innovation hub called Winter Circus in
36:01
36:01 in Belgium.
36:02
36:02 >> Right, and it’s good that you draw
36:03
36:03 attention to
36:05
36:05 the location there. However, you are
36:07
36:07 also very central. It’s right by, I
36:10
36:10 think, by Manchester Piccadilly. It’s
36:12
36:12 just a short walk. Manchester’s
36:13
36:13 obviously world famous. What would you
36:16
36:16 like Manchester to be famous for
36:19
36:19 other than sister
36:21
36:21 in the future? What should people know
36:22
36:22 about it?
36:24
36:24 >> I think Manchester has a lot going for
36:26
36:26 it. So, music, arts, culture, I think
36:29
36:29 Manchester is already famous for that.
36:32
36:32 Manchester is the home of the Industrial
36:34
36:34 Revolution. So, it’s always had that
36:37
36:37 sense of innovation. I think Manchester
36:39
36:39 will continue to innovate and I really
36:42
36:42 do want it to become the heart of this
36:45
36:45 this new wave of innovation we’re seeing
36:47
36:47 across across the UK. I think
36:51
36:51 to come back to engineering biology and
36:52
36:52 synthetic biology, I think there is an
36:54
36:54 opportunity for Manchester to be the
36:56
36:56 heart of that cuz there’s a a lot of
36:58
36:58 rich history around life sciences in in
36:60
36:60 Manchester and the surrounding areas, as
37:01
37:01 well.
37:02
37:02 >> I mean, it is it is an interesting
37:03
37:03 broader point, isn’t it, as we start to
37:05
37:05 see certain my word, clusters emerge.
37:09
37:09 There must be um conversation within
37:12
37:12 certain real estate um
37:15
37:15 organizations, should we say, to say,
37:17
37:17 “Well, ought we to specialize in these
37:19
37:19 particular areas, or is it in our
37:22
37:22 breadth uh that the magic happens?” I I
37:24
37:24 just trying to understand and any clues
37:26
37:26 about how you navigate that.
37:27
37:27 >> This is a conversation we have all the
37:29
37:29 time. So, we receive lots of
37:30
37:30 applications from companies that want to
37:32
37:32 come and and base themselves at Circle
37:34
37:34 Square. We’ve been in a fortunate
37:35
37:35 position to be quite selective over the
37:37
37:37 organizations we want to work with. So,
37:40
37:40 they have to be innovating,
37:42
37:42 uh which is typically a product-led
37:44
37:44 business, so not a service.
37:47
37:47 But, we, as a joint venture partner with
37:49
37:49 the University of Manchester, have
37:51
37:51 anchored on their research strengths
37:53
37:53 across digital and AI, health tech,
37:55
37:55 biotech, and advanced materials and
37:57
37:57 manufacturing. So, there are the They
37:59
37:59 are the four pillars that we’re looking
38:00
38:00 to to focus on cuz we think that’s where
38:03
38:03 there’s the best opportunity for
38:05
38:05 Manchester, but where we can best
38:07
38:07 support businesses in those specific
38:10
38:10 areas, because that’s where the research
38:12
38:12 expertise is at the university.
38:14
38:14 >> Right, so that’s super clear. I can’t
38:16
38:16 let you off completely here, Karim,
38:18
38:18 because given that services are 80% of
38:20
38:20 the UK economy, uh more or less, What do
38:23
38:23 you say to the listener who’s saying,
38:25
38:25 “Hang on, we’re innovating.
38:28
38:28 Where do we go?”
38:30
38:30 >> There’s a 100% there’s a there’s an
38:32
38:32 opportunity for service-based businesses
38:34
38:34 at Sister two.
38:36
38:36 For the Ronald Innovation Hub, that’s
38:38
38:38 the the core identity, so as I described
38:40
38:40 previously.
38:42
38:42 We work very closely with lots of of
38:44
38:44 different professional services
38:46
38:46 businesses. There is
38:48
38:48 an opportunity for for those businesses
38:50
38:50 to engage with the early stage community
38:53
38:53 that we’re building at Sister.
38:55
38:55 And I and and my team have lots of
38:58
38:58 amazing relationships and we facilitate
38:60
38:60 and broker those instructions to work
39:01
39:01 with businesses. But again, thinking for
39:04
39:04 the for the later phases of Sister,
39:05
39:05 absolutely there’s an opportunity for
39:07
39:07 services to to be part of that
39:09
39:09 innovative district, yes.
39:10
39:10 >> And for them all to work more closely
39:11
39:11 together. I think that’s so interesting
39:12
39:12 with the partnerships you’re talking
39:13
39:13 about with Venture Cafe, with the
39:15
39:15 university itself.
39:17
39:17 we ask all of our guests to finish with
39:20
39:20 a memo to the future.
39:23
39:23 And that could be to send a message to
39:25
39:25 10 years time, it could be to your
39:26
39:26 future self,
39:27
39:27 a future
39:29
39:29 innovator or head of innovation.
39:31
39:31 Turn to our audience over here and tell
39:34
39:34 them, what would you say?
39:35
39:35 >> I would say, be resilient.
39:38
39:38 Be unwavering and be mission-driven.
39:41
39:41 We’re seeing a lot of change.
39:43
39:43 Technologies are evolving, there’s a lot
39:45
39:45 of chaos around, but if you remain
39:47
39:47 mission-driven and values-driven
39:50
39:50 you’ve stand the best opportunity to
39:53
39:53 navigate some of the uncertainty that’s
39:55
39:55 going on around.
39:57
39:57 >> That’s a brilliant memo, Karim. Thank
39:59
39:59 you.
39:59
39:59 I’m going to take one final big step
40:01
40:01 back because I am drawn back to your
40:03
40:03 role as head of innovation within an
40:05
40:05 innovation district. What do you think
40:09
40:09 the role really boils down to? And what
40:11
40:11 do you enjoy most about it? Because
40:13
40:13 you’ve given a lot of clues about that,
40:15
40:15 but I don’t want to miss getting to the
40:16
40:16 essence of it.
40:18
40:18 So, you’re right to recognize I mean
40:20
40:20 innovation is one of those words that’s
40:21
40:21 used in so many different contexts.
40:24
40:24 And for me, innovation um particularly
40:27
40:27 about my role, it’s about supporting our
40:29
40:29 businesses to innovate, to grow. I think
40:32
40:32 we have a a challenge in the UK in
40:35
40:35 scaling businesses. So, where I’m able
40:37
40:37 to unlock doors, support founders to
40:40
40:40 grow,
40:42
40:42 that’s where the magic can happen. So,
40:44
40:44 innovation for me is helping the
40:46
40:46 businesses that we work closely with to
40:48
40:48 innovate.
40:49
40:49 >> So, that is very clear.
40:52
40:52 I am going off deliberately on a tangent
40:54
40:54 and I’m conscious I probably oughtn’t to
40:57
40:57 do that. I can’t resist.
41:00
41:00 If you were to decouple innovation and
41:02
41:02 growth in your mind,
41:04
41:04 what would that do?
41:07
41:07 >> So, I think they are linked, which is
41:08
41:08 really important, but innovation is
41:11
41:11 about thinking
41:14
41:14 differently and doing things
41:15
41:15 differently.
41:17
41:17 So, that means
41:19
41:19 if you if there is a better way of doing
41:21
41:21 something, whatever that might be,
41:23
41:23 whether it’s a process improvement,
41:24
41:24 whether it’s adopting a new technology,
41:27
41:27 whether it’s
41:29
41:29 just thinking and engaging with people
41:31
41:31 differently. So, it can be a cultural
41:33
41:33 element to it as well. So, innovation I
41:35
41:35 think is doing things differently, but
41:37
41:37 for the better and
41:39
41:39 typically, almost exclusively, that will
41:41
41:41 result in better growth as well.
41:43
41:43 >> And it might well over the long term.
41:46
41:46 All that concerns me occasionally is
41:49
41:49 that we overly entwine those two
41:51
41:51 thoughts
41:53
41:53 at the risk of the bigger idea of
41:55
41:55 innovation, which you’ve just
41:57
41:57 beautifully articulated, which could
41:59
41:59 give momentum to so many different parts
42:01
42:01 of a business. Whereas if we were overly
42:03
42:03 demanding that it has to show
42:05
42:05 bottom-line results in the short term,
42:07
42:07 we might miss the bigger innovator
42:09
42:09 opportunity.
42:10
42:10 >> Yeah, I think
42:12
42:12 you’ve you This goes back to sort of
42:14
42:14 being mission-driven as well. So, you’ve
42:16
42:16 got sort of your North Star, what you
42:17
42:17 where you want to end up, but you can
42:19
42:19 tinker and innovate to try and help to
42:21
42:21 get to that point. So, I think it is
42:24
42:24 true that as you’re innovating and and
42:27
42:27 thinking differently and doing new
42:28
42:28 things, that that can be your path
42:30
42:30 towards your North Star. But, there is a
42:32
42:32 you know, a fundamental base that’s
42:34
42:34 going to grow along with you that you
42:36
42:36 you’ve got teams that need to innovate
42:38
42:38 and we’re thinking for larger
42:39
42:39 businesses, the whole business doesn’t
42:41
42:41 need to be in innovating. It could be
42:43
42:43 those that are setting the strategic
42:45
42:45 direction or those that are coming up
42:46
42:46 with new ideas. So, I think you’re right
42:48
42:48 to decouple the two in some way.
42:49
42:49 >> Um Karim,
42:51
42:51 really fascinating to talk to you. Final
42:53
42:53 question, we want to be helpful at
42:55
42:55 Tomorrow and at the Future Forum. Who
42:57
42:57 would you like to welcome to other than
42:59
42:59 everyone? Uh who would you like to see
43:01
43:01 more of at Circle in Manchester?
43:04
43:04 >> I would love to see
43:08
43:08 innovative
43:10
43:10 biotechnology businesses.
43:13
43:13 And and that’s on a Circle kind of
43:15
43:15 early-stage ecosystem level.
43:18
43:18 But, if we could attract a business such
43:21
43:21 as Isomorphic Labs or one of the leaders
43:24
43:24 in this field and use them as a
43:26
43:26 uh a hook to bring in some of the really
43:29
43:29 exciting businesses in across
43:31
43:31 Manchester, that’s what I’d love to see.
43:33
43:33 >> Okay, well, full disclosure, I have yet
43:35
43:35 to pay my first physical visit to
43:38
43:38 Circle. Everything I’ve learned about
43:40
43:40 it, everything to do with my
43:42
43:42 interactions with the team including
43:43
43:43 you, Karim, uh suggests to me that we
43:45
43:45 would strongly encourage anyone to do
43:47
43:47 exactly that.
43:48
43:48 >> You’re very welcome anytime.
43:49
43:49 >> So, thank you, Dr. Karim Bahu, for
43:51
43:51 joining us on Tomorrow.
43:52
43:52 >> Thank you very much.
43:53
43:53 >> So, there we have someone who has what
43:56
43:56 is very enviable as a job, isn’t it?
43:58
43:58 Connecting the dots, but fundamentally
44:00
44:00 based around a physical place, an
44:03
44:03 innovation district in the great city of
44:05
44:05 Manchester. And what really struck me
44:07
44:07 was just how essential it is for that
44:10
44:10 concoction to thrive for there to be
44:12
44:12 very diverse ingredients from large
44:14
44:14 corporates to early stage startups,
44:16
44:16 investors, the university itself. And
44:19
44:19 also that message that they’re open to
44:21
44:21 all parts of the UK and all parts of the
44:24
44:24 world. So that’s a heady mix and
44:27
44:27 something we’re very grateful to be
44:29
44:29 encouraged to think about here on
44:31
44:31 Tomorrow. That’s my guest for today, Dr.
44:33
44:33 Karim Barhou. If you’ve enjoyed it,
44:35
44:35 please let us know and share this
44:37
44:37 conversation with anyone that you think
44:40
44:40 should hear it. This has been Tomorrow,
44:42
44:42 the Future Forum podcast. I’m Ollie
44:44
44:44 Barrett and until next time,
44:46
44:46 goodbye.