Britain Is at a Crossroads
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If we don’t get the compute laid down between now and 2030, we will lose this race. I’m a natural optimist. We’ve got
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this amazing capital city we’re sat in right now in London. We’ve really got the opportunity to take that to the
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world. If we don’t run towards the opportunity, in fact, we bury our head in the sands. We end up becoming a vassal state. You’ve got to treat it
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that your business is under absolute threat. Got to re-engineer yourself. And frankly, you’ve got to have an appetite
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to take somebody else’s business. I I believe if we could coalesce more more private sector capital today, we could
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stretch our legs much further. Today, unfortunately, the U the UK is about 13th globally in capital being deployed
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in AI. Right. What’s to stop you gathering some of your peers and making the momentum in
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the other direction saying we have got together? What do you think of this?
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Hello and welcome to tomorrow the future forum podcast. I’m Ollie Barrett and
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here at Future Forum, we are fascinated by what happens when you bring people together from very different worlds to
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leave their lane and to shape the future together. My [snorts] guest today is
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Steve, chief exec of Riby Group, one of the UK’s largest private businesses,
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revenues of over4 billion pounds, no less. Now, this is a group that spans
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real estate, technology, investments, hospitality, and more. Except Steve’s
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interests go way beyond business. They are about AI, about skills, about
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placebased philanthropy. He’s someone we are absolutely thrilled to say. Steve
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Riby, welcome to Tomorrow. Thanks for having me. So happy you’ve made time to spend with
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us, Steve. I ask every guest on tomorrow, if you could glimpse the future, have a look now. What do you
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see? What do you hope we’ll see? It’s a really very interesting time in life. We we are at this potential
Why Britain Must Run Towards the Future
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juncture in life. Certainly in the UK, we know we’re we’re a bit stuck right now. I think we probably both, you and I
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both see varying politicians at times and I think we’d all agree we’re a bit stuck. So the future I think has an
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opportunity ahead of it if we take the right road and that opportunity is to finally break through the lack of
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productivity in the UK, the lack of aspiration that we have, the lack of ambition and that sort of low growth
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snow slow growth area and that can be achieved today if we run AI. I really believe the the technology is truly
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transformational. We’ve both got the most to lose in in Europe because of our service economy and the most to gain.
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I’m a natural optimist. We’ve got this amazing capital city we’re sat in right now in London, we’ve really got the
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opportunity to take that to the world. On the other side of that argument, if we are resistant to the change, if we’re
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slow to adapt, if we don’t run towards the opportunity, in fact, we bury our head in the sands, we end up becoming a
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vessel state, and that vessel state likely is beholdent upon the US, potentially on China for things like
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physical AI. Yet, we pray pay the price for the societal disruption. So, we’ve got this really important juncture. I’m
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an optimist and hoping for the for the former, not the latter, but I think we’ve really got to run at this current change ahead of us.
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So, we’re going to unpack some clues about how we get there. Let’s go towards uh the more optimistic case, those
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sunlit uplands. What does that then end up meaning uh for the UK, for team UK
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overall? What’s the upside? Yeah. So, the the upside unfortunately comes with some consequence. And I’m not
The Cost of Economic Disruption
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going to sit here and lie to you to say that that’s not the case. And that consequence means that we’re going to have a bit of a jagged edge uh ahead of
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us. So even in an environment where we run towards the future, that means unfortunately some societal disruption.
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So whilst the net net will mean economic growth and long-term job growth, it doesn’t mean that every region and every
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job type in every industry succeeds in the way it has in the past. And that’s why it’s a really difficult decision to
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run towards it. So unfortunately you life tends to have consequences not all of them in our control but if we are to
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run towards the opportunity it means embracing technology accepting that there may well be that that element of
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job loss but also acknowledging with a growing business with a growing economy there’s huge job creation and it’s
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having a leap of faith going into the deep end a believing that this change is coming which I very firmly do that there
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is no way in the world today that we have the level of capital expenditure that we have uh for the software
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business in the world. Software business is about half a trillion dollars. What everyone’s investing in is the knowledge
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worker business. It’s $23 trillion of value. So I can see what the technology businesses are seeing which is this
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societal change. And as I say, I believe the UK is absolutely at the forefront of
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potentially taking advantage of that if we run towards it. Right. So let’s not uh miss the chance
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to talk about some of those advantages we already have. Uh let’s pause briefly. just give us a a whistle stop tour of
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the group because I name checked some there. Hospitality, hotels, aviation I think still in the mix but but just give
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us a quick glimpse around. Yeah, I mean at the heart of the group’s a technology business. So we are
Inside Rigby Group
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Europe’s largest private technology business. Uh you know we are a very large reseller of technology as you
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mentioned about4 billion pounds that includes AI technology a top three in in air amir uh selling that technology.
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We’re also a prolific technology investor both as a venture capitalist. I do that with my own balance sheet rather
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than with clients money but it’s a big number. It’s 100 million plus. And we also run our own private equity
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investments. So businesses that we create what we would call a rollup or a buy and build. We have a number of those
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uh today in our portfolio. Uh and we we’re long-term investors in those businesses, often creating 250 person
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employee businesses or larger. And I’m very proud today [clears throat] there are only about 1,500 private 250 person
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employee businesses, of which about 750 are familyowned. We’ve created over eight in our lifetime. So about 1% of
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those we’ve created. And it it reassures me and the reason I back family business as a sector, if we can do it, other
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people can do it. It’s about having ambition. It’s about assembling the right teams and as everywhere in life,
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it’s about having the right ideas. Right. So on that link of family business, you chair family business UK.
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Very often when we think about the future, we think about what will be born, what’s new. Yeah. And yet the truth is right at the core
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of the future is what endures, what lasts. And um the last person that needs reminding of that is you leading a
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family business. So how does it feel do you think different to lead a family business? So I think if you think about the style
Why Family Businesses Think Long Term
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of investing out there, you know, if you are an investor and you want to be a long-term investor, you’re not you’re
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not going to put all of your investment in in venture capital or private equity. You might put some in bonds, you might have some in cash, you might have some,
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you know, in in the NASDAQ or in the Footsie. And family businesses I treat very much in the same way. So we’re a
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really core component part of the economy and we s we sit in that more traditional business economy. Most
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family businesses are not very fastmoving businesses and by that I mean they’re not growing at 10% 20% compound
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growth rates. They’re growing in in the in the mid- single digits. Typically they are growing businesses but they’re mid-s single digits but they’re doing
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that consistently for decades. I take my own organization just back to 2014
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albeit we disposed of a business just prior but we were just 1.5 billion. We were 4,000 people, you know, we’re now
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eight and a half thousand people. We were nine and a half thousand before sending our air airport business. So,
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we’re always growing, but it’s not necessarily that 10 20 30% scale up momentum, which you and I both uh live a
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little bit in that world in terms of understanding the importance of that. But we’re we’re here for the long term.
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We take generational decisions. And importantly, we’re not based in London. Typically, 85% of family businesses
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outside of London. They’re in towns and cities where they’re material employers. They give back to their communities and
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they provide this backbone for the country. So, how do you then weigh what to keep, what
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to change, what to do new, and what you’re suggesting, if I’m reading
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between the lines, is that you can afford to have longer timelines, longer
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time horizons perhaps, than a um a separate business that might just be forced to live quarter to quarter. Yeah,
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we are although we’re only second generation, I think we’re one of the more advanced family businesses in the UK. We have a family office associated.
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Uh so, so we we have this cornerstone business in SEC, our main trading company, which is a forever keep
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business for us. Um but I I quite like buy and build. I I like the process of assembling businesses. I particularly
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like the process of buying somebody’s life’s work. And actually, I’m you know, reasonably uniquely placed in the
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private equity industry. If I come and talk to you about your business and it’s seven, eight, 10, 15 years old, yes, you
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can go and sell to private equity, but selling to someone that has a similar set of values to you is going to believe in your people. If I say I’ll do
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something, five years forward, I’ll have done it. Yeah. Uh having that continuity, I think, is is important. But you we we like, you
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know, unfortunately in a in a private business, one of the negatives is that you can only grow as fast as your equity. And for me, one of the ways of
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turbocharging our equity and continuing to grow our business is that buy and build journey and is the investment
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journey. So, we’ve got this beauty of a of a good cornerstone business gives the gives the business and the family a
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really strong reputation. You know, with we’re the fifth largest UK business in France as an example, just one component
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of that. Yeah. Uh, you know, it’s our biggest business in SEC, but of any type of business, you know, we’re a really significant a
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significant organization. So, but but then I have I have these other mechanisms around which create this
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liquidity and allow us to keep stretching ourselves and doing more and more. Yeah. It’s such an interesting thought
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though about finding those kindred spirits that they will know that what they sell to you is in good hands.
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Yes. And and that you’ll be good to your word on that. Um when we’re thinking about that, let’s do um I haven’t asked a
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guest this before, but if we were to do sort of really quick sort of SWAT analysis on Britain at the moment, where
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where do you take us if I ask you for our strengths? What are we really good at? I think we talk ourselves down terribly as a country to start with and
Britain’s Strengths: What Are We Good At?
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if you look at the way in which the world looks at us aside from some recent political challenges. It’s not been the
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most glorious environment but you know we’re in an amazing time zone between east and west. We we strangely we won’t
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believe this as British people have quite good weather for a lot of the world. [laughter] It’s quite attractive. We’ve got this amazing capital city
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which provides, you know, a level of life which is almost unreputable elsewhere in the world
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in terms of culture, in terms of food, in terms of schooling, in terms of the legal system, the
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business environment. We know about our great education systems and that’s a big draw for people coming to live in London
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to bring their children here to be educated here. So, we we’ve got this amazing infrastructure as a country that
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we shouldn’t decry and whatever’s happened in recent times, it’s still there, right? So that that’s that’s the positive. So on the on the
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strengths, I think we’ve got this amazing set of activity on on on weaknesses. Do you think there
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is a type of weakness that all too often we’re not aware that we have? In other words, we might not we might not view it
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as such, but actually you see the bigger picture. You travel internationally. It it will affect us if we’re not conscious
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of it. I I think we are talking ourselves down. We we saw the process unfortunately that Labour went into coming into government
Britain’s Biggest Weakness: Talking Ourselves Down
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of talking down the economy before a difficult budget and the combination of those two things did a lot of damage to
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the economy. One of those things they may have got away with but the two together that 3 to four month cycle of
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slowing the economy down then making some sub substantial fiscal shifts we we we really lost seven n months or so of
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time. So you know I think we’ve got to be very careful about how we talk about the UK. It isn’t broken. It’s got areas
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of improvement. There’s no doubt about that. But it isn’t broken. We have a very functioning society and there are
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some challenges. But there are I mean again I travel a lot around the world, have businesses in many European countries and I see similar challenges
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in other jurisdictions. So I think we’ve got to stop talking ourselves down both at the political level and at a business
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level. At the end of the day, there’s always market share out there. It’s your job as a business leader to go and get it. And the one thing I continually say
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to government, you know, we’re fascinated by exports, but actually internationalization of the UK, you
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know, we were once 45% of the global economy. So we’re now 3%. Now the world’s a bigger place.
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Uh, you know, it’s not 200 years ago, but there’s no reason why the UK can’t internationalize its capability. And
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again, with this change with AI, the ability for us to be a global service provider in whatever area of uh, society
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you look at is a really interesting angle, right? And it’s a really important point to underline because 80% of the economy
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is services, right? So so on opportunity, I want to lead uh lead the witness on this one, but
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where where do we go on our biggest opportunity? So I think professional services sits as probably the largest single opportunity.
Where Is Britain’s Biggest Opportunity?
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If you think about the delivery mechanisms, let’s take tax as an example. Tax has historically been a
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very complicated jurisdictional activity. And whilst there’s been centers of taxation in the UK like there
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are big centers for insurance and financial services the delivery mechanisms have typically been local
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with AI those barriers can can collapse because it’s a rule-based tax system they’re published in each territory. So
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the UK can start to think about doing other jurisdictions work in my opinion. Um so I think professional services,
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financial services, insurance, we’re really in a very strong position if we run hard at it. I think clearly we’re
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seeing here in London today and hopefully it starts to branch out to other parts of the UK that we’re seen very much as the inward investment for
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skills and AI. You know, we’re not going to win the war against the large American organizations, the large
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foundational models, but that doesn’t mean we can’t be the London outpost. And I would argue as London, you cross has
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done an amazing job, 1200 people uh 12 years ago to 35,000 people this year. I
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argue other cities like Birmingham very very closely connected from a transportation perspective can be a
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really good further adjunct as as King’s Cross starts to get get large uh in
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terms of its its capacity to uh accommodate more people. We’ve obviously had this industrial strategy uh you know
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CLA Barkley um you and I will both know has done a good job chairing that. Uh I think the Department of Business
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and Trade Sam Listister who led that did a really good job. The critical thing is now what do we do with it? So we can all
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have a plan, but it’s about execution. I’ve just led a led a piece of work in the West Midlands in response to the
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advanced manufacturing element of the industrial strategy. We’ve put together a really cohesive plan. We’re just
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recruiting a chair to lead that right now. I’ve invested some of my own money in the process to make it work. And if
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we get if we get industry involved, get public and private closer together, then there’s a real chance of breaking
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through on some of these key areas. Right. So I’ve got lots I want to ask you about this. So we’re going to change gear slightly. Um on that modern
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industrial strategy, one of the pillars if you like in terms of areas that the country is backing itself to be greater
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in future. One of them is professional services. Um it’s easy to see the
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dominant forces in that area in the future as being you know it’s the big four plus another few. To what extent do
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you think entrepreneurs, even startups might have a role to play in that or is it only going to be the giants?
No Business Is Safe From Disruption
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No, I don’t think so. I think you know the the easy one to look at right now because it’s under so much flux is
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consulting. So, you know, you only have to look at Accenture share price right now to see the pressure that they’re under as an organization. It’s an
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organization of several hundred,000 people and they’re under attack from lots of people. You’ve got these forward
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deployed engineering capabilities being set up by people like open anthropic Microsoft Mr. Alen France doing the
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same. So you’ve got these f they’re called FDES. You’ve got these FDE setups being being set up. So there’s lots of
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challenge even in what felt like traditional industries. I I look in the accounting world the big four as they’re
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known. You know now you’ve got people like Alex Partners and Alvarez and Martinez. Real
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challenges coming through. Some private equity back businesses. So industries I thought were previously closed no longer
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are. That’s what I’m saying. And they’re bringing in more entrepreneurial spirit to what they’re doing. So I I think it
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is arrogant in any sense to think that you are protected in this current environment. You’ve got to treat it that
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your business is under absolute threat. Got to re-engineer yourself and frankly you’ve got to have an appetite to take somebody else’s
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business. Right. So next question related to that is you could spend your time Steve Riby
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in and out if you so desired of number 10 number 11 looking at policy shifts at a national level. You could do the same
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on a European level or a global level and you could spend all your time in what I’m calling your home patch in the
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West Midlands. Yes. How do you decide where to invest your time and energy for maximum impact?
Steve Rigby’s Mission Beyond Business
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Yeah. So I mean I got I’m 53 now. When I got to 50, you know, I thought, do I just keep building things? And although
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we were giving money away as a as a family, fundamentally, I was building it for the benefit of Rugby Group. A and I
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made a decision, rightly or wrongly two years ago to start focusing half of my life outside of work. And um, you know,
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I try and split that time, you know, 10 days a month, about four days philanthropically, about two days in the
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West Midlands, about two days for family business, uh, and the other two days focused around central government
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engagement. So, you know, I’m really I have to be structured because I’ve got so many board responsibilities.
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So, you know, I rather nerdily color code my diary even. Uh, so I I have to try and balance to make sure that I do
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everything to an effective level and I try and make sure that I, you know, prioritize the time accordingly.
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And even if we take one of those colors, I don’t know which color it is, um, is philanthropy. Yes.
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Where does that at the moment are there particular causes that that draws? you know, we’re we’re lucky to be successful
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and we’ve got two charities, uh, two foundations as they’re called in family, uh, terms. My father has one that’s
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focused on capital, uh, which does things like Maggie’s Cancer Centers, and we’re just in the Coronation Food Hub in
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Birmingham. The foundation I lead focuses on disadvantaged young people in the West Midlands, uh, and in Birmingham
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specifically. We’re pretty capped out. They’re both about 2 million pounds a year giving, so they’re both sizable foundations. But
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because mine’s capped out, much of my work now is actually looking at policy. So spending lots of time thinking about
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how do we engage people like me in an environment in place uh to allow them to
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show them an opportunity. I know I’ve sort of fought my way into charity rather than it being presented to me and
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I that can’t be the right way around. So I really want to have an environment where local and combined authorities can
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present a picture to philanthropists and to social capital to say these are our problems. are you interested in helping
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us solve them? Really interesting because today that doesn’t exist and then so we would need to put some infrastructure in place. We’re working
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on that right now raising some capital from government and for from philanthropy to put in place the
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resources required to both look into the local and combined authorities and look back out to to the funders.
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Really interesting. And that could ladder up to a national level. You can be sharing intelligence across all of those layers.
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Yes, it it would be a national program but it would be broken down. We would start with six of the 12 combined authorities. This is really interesting. There’s a
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rhyme um sounding in my head around how funders in other sectors navigate. Yes.
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If you think about the pressure on pension funds to invest in private equities at the moment. Some of them will say well that’s all very well but
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how do we find our way? Yes. So you’ve got intermediaries maybe including the British business bank saying we’ll make it easier for you.
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Yes. Yeah. I I think that’s that’s a good analogy actually but there are you know there are a number of ways to give money away. There are things called
Why Giving Money Away Can Be More Rewarding
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donor advised funds. Uh there are there are community foundations. So it’s not you don’t just have to have a a
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foundation yourself. signposting all of that, giving people a journey. In my experience, giving money away is far
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more rewarding than making it. But only if you do it in a considered controlled way and you’re involved. If you’re just
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writing a check, frankly, you know, it’s a it’s a pretty simple thing to do, but actually being involved in societal
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change, for me, it feels huge rewarding. Is there a piece of advice you’d give to your earlier self as you were starting
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on that philanthropy journey, something you wish you’d known? Yeah, I mean, it’s I was lucky. My family set up their foundation 30 odd
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years ago. they were they were in their early 50s when they did it. And I started my philanthropic journey uh with
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a with a charity called Place to Be um in my very late 30s. The the trick for me now is to get my
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children to be involved in their early 30s. Right. So keep coming back early because the journey you go on, as I say, it’s a huge
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rewarding activity. I’ve certainly when I I refreshed our foundation two years ago, brought external leadership in for
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the first time, treated it like a startup, and you know, we’re now regarded right up there in the UK on placebased
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philanthropy. Um, and you know, it it shows by throwing energy, commitment,
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strategy, obviously some financial resources, you can achieve an awful lot in a short space of time. Yeah. And it has also echoed in your
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work in supporting entrepreneurs across the West Midlands and uh and and beyond. It’s fascinating. I’ll ask you a bit
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more of a personal question. Um, we haven’t agreed this in advance. When you think about the future of the business,
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how important is it that to you that the future leadership of the company is already within your family? Is that not
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the point? Yeah. No, not for us, it’s not the point because the because the organization has morphed into being very large, very
Should the Next Generation Run the Family Business?
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complicated. And in fact, we’ve agreed that we’re going to go on another journey and that we will have uh
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financial stewards of our family business, family members, but actually that we’ll seek professional leadership
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to run the totality of the group just because the size of it 8 and a half thousand people 4 billion to ask our children, you know, I I left
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school unfortunately at 17 but came in the business uh you know 35 36 years ago. So I’ve been around for a long part
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of its journey whilst we’re 50 or 51 now. Actually the main trading company is only 45 years old. So I’ve been
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around it for a large amount of its life. To ask my children to replicate that and frankly you know my father got divorced,
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my brother got divorced, I got divorced and the simple reason why we all did that is we worked too hard and actually
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I don’t necessarily want that journey for my children. I think hard work is a really important part of success but but
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you know sometimes you can take it too far. I suspect we all took it a bit too far. Right. So here here’s a much broader
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question, Steve, which is you seem to be someone who um immerses themselves and
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engages in their work. Yes. You’re passionate about uh where you’re from and of course your business and your family.
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To what extent do you think about the future? I I you know, my wife, my second wife is
Are We Thinking Far Enough Ahead?
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uh tells me off all the time about planning in the future. So uh you know, I can tell you what I’m doing for most
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of the first half of next year. Um, so and so I think the future is really important and you know I’ve just just
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been in the US we’ve just mentioned to you I’ve been in the US for a few weeks and because of the time difference I had a six hour time difference I had my
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afternoons free so from about 2:00 I had my I had the rest of my day free having some capacity to think about the future
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to think about where I’m going what I’m trying to achieve where the opportunity is if I look back one of the mistakes of
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my life is I spent too much time looking at where the ball is not thinking about where the ball’s going to go to and
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whilst it served me well because I’ve thrown huge amounts of passion and energy at chasing that ball and clearly
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we’ve been very successful in the process. Had I been looking further ahead, had I been thinking more about
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where the ball was going, I think we’d be even further ahead as a family. Really interesting. And there’s a social
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echo of that brilliant book actually called the second bounce of the ball which is on the secondary effects on
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impact and so social issues as well. just trying to think one step ahead except you’ve already given us clues
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about that because you’re embracing AI and at the same time you’re recognizing the knock on effect that’s going to have
23:33
on skills and I bet you are mindful that we don’t want some people just left on the hard shoulder
AI, Jobs and the Future of Taxation
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you know I I I am going to personally do very well from AI because we’re a big reseller of technology I’m an early
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stage investor in people like anthropic I I I’m on the right side of this change but because of that we’ve already
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decided and I think we’re doing more than anybody else in the country we’ve already decided to put back. So we we
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have a project underway on knowledge workers and the impacts on displacement with the learning and work institute. Uh
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I’ve just assembled something called the sovereign AI leadership team very senior sea level people from the largest
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technology companies in the UK. We’re trying to help government advise on where we think they should be going here
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and now. What are the immediate steps that are critical? And then the last one I’m working on uh is thinking about the
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future shape of taxation in an environment where we’ve got agent to agent commons where we’ve got robots
24:25
displacing humans where we’ve got US data centers providing knowledge and replacing our workers. How does the tax
24:31
system need to reflect all of that? So and and give us a sense of your initial answer on that because this is
24:37
on the minds of uh quite a few people we’re speaking to at the moment. If you were sketching out some initial thought
24:43
starters, where are you going? But let’s take let’s take one that’s interesting and it’s not being talked about very much which is robots. So what what I’m
Could We End Up Taxing Robots?
24:51
seeing in the robot arena, I think we’re still some time away from having robots in homes of of of any nature because the
24:56
home is a very complex environment and each home is unique. So from a software perspective, it’s pretty difficult to navigate everything that’s happening
25:02
in an industrial setting. I think we’re heading towards robots coming towards the end of this decade. And in that environment, you’ve got
25:08
you’re talking about, forgive me, Steve, you’re talking about humanoid robots. This is either humanoid or humanoidesque robots. So in some settings you don’t
25:14
need humanoid limbs to to make it work. Certainly feet aren’t required in an industrial environment. Perhaps an environment of
25:20
wheels is actually better. Mhm. But in an environment where robots can do human tasks. Uh so in in that
25:26
situation, you know, the UK is particularly bad today at automation. We’re lucky in things like our car
25:31
industry. We have a very high average retail price because of Aston Martin and because of Jag Jaguar Land Rover.
25:38
Um were we not to do that in the mass market business, we’d have to have automated much further. So in one breath
25:43
I don’t want to slow automation down because we’re behind the curve. In the other breath what we’re going to see with robots is robots delivered as a
25:50
service. So I think the manufacturers will want to sell them as a complete service not
25:56
necessarily sell a capital item in that environment. If they’re displacing humans, there’s 3 million people in manufacturing and logistics in
26:02
the UK. We’re going to have to think about taxing those robots. So is there any reason why a robot as a service
26:08
shouldn’t receive a national insurance equivalency as an example because it’s a deployed asset doing a doing a
26:14
human-like job. So thinking through how do we balance when is the right time not to slow down
26:20
automation we want we want our country to remain match fit but also then consider you know there’s
26:25
a point we get to where if those jobs are displaced we need to find an alternate source of capital uh for the
26:30
country. So these are complex things to think through. Look how complex today it is to even think through EV pricing
26:36
versus fuel duty. And the government hasn’t achieved that yet despite the fact we’re now heading
26:41
towards a situation where there’s probably now more electric cars being bought. Uh albeit the balance is still
26:47
you know 9010 or 8515 on the road. So thinking about how how these tax areas
26:52
change I think is personally really important. And I think actually having the capacity to do that in a private
26:58
sector environment sometimes we can say things that other people can’t do. I’m also employing you know uh think tanks
27:04
to do that who’ve got time to think and advisers who’ve got time to share their thoughts. Well on that point think tanks and
27:11
advisers and especially fascinating um notion there on taxing uh robots what
27:18
strikes me is that it will take a very well-cast round table to discuss that
27:24
fully. Yes. And perhaps, here’s my theory, all too often, uh, these things are debated
27:31
in um, silos. I think they probably are. Listen, they’re a conflict. Another another
Why Business and Government Need to Work Together
27:36
interesting one for you is that you and I, uh, do some work together and our our agents engage with each other and on the
27:44
blockchain, they pay they pay each other for service. How do we tax that on the blockchain sat somewhere completely
27:50
different in this country? So, there were lots of these real life issues coming our way. uh there there’s already
27:55
about $50 million of transactions happening on Coinbase as an example in that environment. So we’ve just we’ve
28:00
got to get bright minds and the bright minds can’t just sit in in treasury. They’ve also got to sit outside, right?
28:06
And I think the relationship between the private sector and the public sector has got to get closer. Look at what’s happening in the US right now in AI.
28:12
That is a private sectorled initiative with fuel being poured on the fire by government. A and you know in our
28:20
environment far too often we expect government to do things for us. And I think business also has has to think
28:25
through some of these issues. What strikes me though listening to you speak today, Steve, and again it ties
28:31
into what you’ve said about helping or maybe local authorities helping philanthropist map causes problems that
28:37
need to be solved. In one universe, Steve Riby is operating almost as a lone agent funding, making
28:45
his own research, thinking through important things, thinking to that second bounce of the ball. In another
28:50
universe, you’re fully wired up in the most highly leveraged, effective way possible with your kindred spirits, with
28:57
the most powerful fellow travelers. How do you make sure you’re in that second universe,
29:04
being with those kindred travelers or, you know, I think you’ve got that’s where this balance of time is for me.
29:10
So, I’ve got to stay, you know, match fit. I’ve just, you know, just been with the head of IBM in in AMIA. You know, I
29:16
met a I met a billion a billion dollar uh venture capitalist this week. You know, my my job is to make sure that my
29:22
life yesterday I had a wonderful experience at the end of our first year of our inspiring futures with a huge
29:27
amount of young children from who benefited from our philanthropy. For me, it’s about getting a balance of life.
29:33
So, I’ I’ve got to make sure that I’m doing all of these things. I’ve got to make sure I make money as well in the process because I can’t give
29:39
money away without making it. I can’t sustain myself without making it. Yeah. I I suppose what I’m sort of nudging at Steve is more this idea that
29:45
you know there’s an extent to which you want to uh dock if you like if I can put it like that some of your ideas thinking
29:51
concerns um but in the harbor where they’re going to thrive right there there will actually come a point
29:58
here’s another thought where you accidentally dock them in big organizations have got vested interests and you think actually um you know this
30:05
isn’t the best place I’m just trying to work out where you place yourself this is where the UK is way way way too
Can Business Really Influence Policy?
30:11
cautious versus the us. So you you could argue I I’ve got vested interests all across the board. You know, we’re a very
30:17
big employer, a very big business. When I’m talking to Treasury about family business taxes, I’m a family business.
30:24
You know, what do you do though? Do you have the brightest minds that are throwing money? I’m, you know, my outside of my philanthropy, I’m throwing
30:31
another seven figure sum at policy work in the UK. How many people are prepared to do that? And of course, there’s an element of
30:37
vested interest in what I’m doing, but I genuinely not approaching it from that perspective. But I can see how I can see
30:43
how I could be accused of it. But I’m genuinely trying to do it from the point of view of wanting a thriving country. Yeah. Well, my my thought was the
30:50
opposite. My thought was that you’re doing it for exactly that reason to have a thriving country. If you’re not
30:55
careful presumably, or if one is not careful, you end up, let’s say, collaborating with a large multinational
31:00
who might be interested in almost taking on board some of this thinking and almost silencing it in a way or kicking
31:06
it into the long grass. And this happens in policy as well. There’s no there’s no doubt. And you know some of the advisory groups I gather you know people are joining
31:13
because they want to know what’s going on not necessarily because they want the change. And it is very difficult. One of
31:18
the beauties of being a private company of having two fellow shareholders who are my brother and father is that I
31:25
don’t have to think about the second order ramifications of my shareholders. And that does allow me as long as I’m
31:31
sensible. I try to be apolitical in what I’m doing. as long as I’m sensible in my recommendations
31:37
um then I think people are people are generally responding well because there are very few people who are wellconed
31:44
independent of shareholders who can make these observations and I I’m I’m two years into to to this piece of work I
31:51
could be sat here in five years time saying that was a complete waste of energy or I could be sat here in five years time saying I can cite these three
31:58
things where I’ve made a real difference and I really hope it’s the latter. Yeah. But you are, I think, relatively
32:04
unique in that. I mean, I I think it’s it’s it’s really important. Um, there’s
32:10
a phrase, isn’t there, to the man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And I sometimes wonder with some of our
32:17
uh peers, maybe some of our viewers, if lots of our ideas form themselves as
32:22
policy recommendations. Yes. When actually the changes, as you know better than most, that need to happen are
32:28
across all sectors. Yes. And I’m just trying to get my head around who’s in charge of marshalling those other forms of action because if
32:35
we’re not careful, we just take another petition to number 11. I think the one thing that you and I both know on policy
Why Britain Needs Long-Term Thinking
32:40
is the lack of consistency of individuals and we look today at China and what China are doing as a country
32:46
and that whilst I don’t advocate the same policies uh of political uh structure as China, the continuity of
32:53
delivery that China has presented over the last two decades and looking forward now puts them in an incredible position.
33:01
They’re thinking forward three steps. they’re investing for the future strategically and the danger that we
33:06
have is that if there aren’t people like me and hopefully there are lots of others trying to do what I’m trying to do. Uh if there aren’t people thinking
33:13
like me when there’s such ministerial change in the government and frankly even at a civil service level we all
33:18
know because civil service you know the is an environment there’s lots of very bright people it’s not the best paid job
33:24
to go into and to progress you generally have to move. So progressing salary. So we both have we both have change in the
33:31
civil service and change in the ministers. In more recent times, the ministers have had more power.
33:36
So in that environment, we’re not getting that continuity of leadership around individual policy issues. And I believe that’s part of the reason why
33:43
the UK is is is stumbling a little right now. We need that longerterm consistency. Hopefully business can can
33:50
bring some of that. Yeah. And and well, let let’s go right into the heart of number 10. We don’t
33:55
know when a viewer listener will be tuning into this. So, let’s imagine that there is a new prime minister in number
34:01
10 and they say, “Come in, Steve. What are the top three things? What what do
34:06
we really need to double down on?” This is that’s putting you on the spot, isn’t it? Where’d you go? Well, you know, it it’s it’s not
Steve Rigby’s Three Priorities for Britain
34:11
something I haven’t thought around to be frank with you. And I would focus on the AI swim lane just because I think it’s so critical right now. The three things
34:18
that I think we need to focus on is compute. Unless we own economic sovereignty, unless we own the ability
34:23
to serve our enterprises, the technology, we can’t capture that economic value and we can’t tax it. I’m
34:29
sorry to keep coming back to tax, but ultimately it’s a really important consideration for the country. That that’s the the first issue. The second
34:36
issue is I believe really firmly that this is a public private initiative and we aren’t coalesing enough capital from
34:42
the largest companies. This isn’t about venture capital. This is about coalescing capital into the UK across
34:48
the board to develop our economy. Uh so I believe we need to get much closer to the private sector. And then the last
34:54
thing and forgive me Steve just on that second point about capital from the private sector just be even clearer about what
35:00
that means in practices about investing in Britain. Take myself so has the government come to me and said we need to invest 500
Can Private Capital Help Britain Win the AI Race?
35:07
million pounds. We’d like to coales a group of 20 organizations to help do this to deliver some sovereign compute.
35:12
If they came to me and said that, I probably would do it. If the financial return was correct, if the opportunity
35:18
was particularly was correctly positioned, is there an opportunity where the government clearly is starved of capital for businesses like mine and
35:25
larger businesses to come behind countrywide initiatives which have to
35:30
make financial sense. Uh I I believe if we could coalesce more more private sector capital today, we could stretch
35:36
our legs much further. Today, unfortunately, the U the UK is about 13th globally in capital being deployed
35:42
in AI. Right. And I’m only saying because I know a viewer is thinking it. What is to stop you? I know you got a couple of
35:47
other things on. What’s to stop you gathering some of your peers and making the momentum in the other direction
35:53
saying we have got together? What do you think of this? The the challenge with doing that you’re doing all the hard work to assemble the
Why Compute Could Decide Britain’s Future
35:59
capital to then say to say yes or no and in reality we’ve got to also agree together what are the priorities. So
36:05
linked to that compute I believe actually today we’re chasing very large AI growth zones 500 megawatts of power
36:11
it’s an extraordinary large amount of power you’re talking about you powering a city level of power
36:16
uh there so you know in that in that situation I believe the opportunity is actually in edge computing so 10
36:22
megawatts 20 megawatts 5 megawatt spread the economy with data centers bring some
36:27
of that capital into our regions um a and access the grid capacity we have
36:32
today not the grid capacity we would like it tomorrow. If we don’t get the compute laid down between now and 2030,
36:38
we will lose this race. The last one to to answer your three is is around that skills point. So I absolutely believe we
36:45
can be on the right side for our employees and our citizens of the skills argument, but only if we get training
36:51
them now. If we leave it for society disruption to happen, the chance for people to be dislocated in the long term is really
36:58
high. And it’s not fair on a single mom working in a call center in Sunderland
37:04
to accept those consequences of that employer coming out of her region when actually that person has communication
37:09
skills, IT skills, problem solving skills and if we showed them another route to go down, those jobs of the
37:15
future will be available to them. Really interesting speaking to Jurgen Meyer, founding chair of Great British Energy about this about just how
Preparing Workers for the Future
37:22
transferable so many of those skills are from traditional roles in oil and gas into renewables. There’s so much more of
37:29
a crossover than some would have thought. Yes. Um who in practice is doing this transitioning with skills?
37:35
Well, what have you seen that gives you cause for optimism? I I think some of the larger organizations
37:40
that are operating, you know, uh by that I would say people like Nat West or IBM
37:46
uh organizations that are operating with higher rates of margin that are typically more forwardthinking organizations. So I I I do see some good
37:53
work happening. Um but but I also anticipate um organizations that are
37:58
under pressure frankly firefighting as we stand right now in the UK it being a tough market with having gone through a
38:05
very significant period of inflation and tax rises who frankly will take the easy route which is that they’ll keep the
38:10
people until they need until they need them and the moment they don’t they’ll restructure them and at the end of the day it is a relatively straightforward
38:17
process restructuring people in the UK I compare it to France not that I’m advocating to change it
38:22
but I compare it to France or Italy where it’s a very difficult process to do. And again, if we think about that as
38:28
an opportunity, that ability to rework the workforce actually is a positive and a unique thing the UK has in Europe. So,
38:35
if we can leverage that by reskilling our people, people leaving a job and coming into another job isn’t always a
38:40
bad thing. In fact, often that person will get more responsibility, more salary. Um, so we’ve just got to just embrace
38:46
the skills to follow. We’re probably going to need other organizations, aren’t we, to step up, maybe they don’t exist today, but between these large
38:53
employers, uh because clearly those large employers are a part of the puzzle. But it doesn’t sound to me like
38:58
it can be the beginning and the end of I did a round table this week on skills uh specifically for this project I’m working on. and um you know the just the
39:07
the the silos between Skills England between DDUP between DFE who play an
39:12
important part about the skills coming into our our future our future employees
39:19
the silo nature of those the sort of never the twain shaw meet issues that we face somehow in government we’ve got to get
39:25
through all of government priorities and join up departments in such a way we all know silos are difficult I have them in
39:31
in my own organization but by having a common mission. By having true leadership, you can get through those
39:37
issues. The issue we face is that there isn’t clear enough signposting on the common issues. There isn’t enough prioritization and there hasn’t been
39:44
strong enough leadership. Right? So on strong leadership, this is the point at which a viewer is probably
39:50
thinking, Ollie, are you going to ask Steve if he wants to go into government? And you won’t be disappointed here. I am going to ask you that.
Would Steve Rigby Go Into Government?
39:56
Yeah. Listen, it’s something I’ve considered uh and I don’t think it’s right for me. I think the the environment that government presents um
40:03
you know you you have to follow you know a complete party doctrine and I’m trying to be aolitical in life uh genu
40:09
genuinely trying to be a political I’m a centrist I can be convinced of center left or center right I struggle with
40:15
with going to the left I struggle with going to the right uh so that’s not an easy place to live as a centrist right now number one
40:22
uh having to follow a party line in an environment where I was going against my own beliefs I would really struggle with
40:29
Um, and then I add into that the public scrutiny, the lack of certainty of the
40:34
path in as to how one would actually achieve an office of of significant enough authority to warrant going in,
40:40
going in to be, you know, one of 650 uh members of parliament with no clear
40:45
trajectory when you’re fortunate enough to be running a, you know, a billion pound plus market value business, the
40:51
full own revenue business. You know, these are difficult things to ask. And I’m not being flippant here,
40:56
Steve. What about more local Mayor Riby? What about it? No, I mean it’s, you know, it’s uh I I
41:02
don’t particularly wish to go into local politics. It it is very tribal. Um Oh, yeah. And you know, I’m very close to
41:08
the West Midlands mayors that have been uh there’ve only been two of them and I see firsthand the challenges they’ve
41:14
just faced off the back of these local elections and the challenges they have on actually trying to take the West Midlands trying to use that mechanism
41:21
across seven metro areas where actually the benefit that Andy Bernham’s had albeit building on the shoulders of
41:27
people like Howard Bernstein in Manchester is actually that Manchester resonates around one city
41:32
in being Manchester greater Manchester is is the message. It isn’t greater Birmingham in the West Midlands,
41:38
you know, it’s the West Midlands and it’s Sleyh Hall and it’s Coventry and it’s Sandwell and it’s Dudley and Wolverampton and Warsaw and Birmingham
41:45
and that’s a very difficult gig to get right. Um, and I also spent much of my life, Ollie, you know, getting out of
41:51
Birmingham when I was younger, coming to London, uh, and and my life is pretty split now between between, you know,
41:57
Cotswwells and and London. So, yeah. All right. All right. Let’s pause briefly, Steve, because I’ve got 10 very
42:04
quick fire questions, but I’m only going to ask you to pick three. So, if I did ask you to pick a number between one and 10, where should we go?
42:10
Seven. What’s something Here’s a big one. What’s something you’ve changed your mind about in the last few years?
What Steve Rigby Has Changed His Mind About
42:18
I came in very optimistic on the change from the Labor Party. I was really to the Labour Party.
42:25
Yeah. Really pro a change. I thought we we’d had a very difficult period under the Conservatives. They didn’t
42:31
deserve to win another election. I think they know that themselves. Uh so I came in very positively and I
42:37
have had to change my mind unfortunately. Uh but that doesn’t mean my mind is closed to not also believing that they
42:43
continue to change and I I am hopeful with Andy Burnham. I see a man coming in with a plan. I see a man coming in
42:50
wanting change. I see a man believing in devolution. I just hope that they don’t I mean I do not understand this oxymoron
42:56
of businessfriendly socialism. Um I just hope they come in and try and focus on
43:01
growing the pie not dividing the pie further. If they can do that then hopefully I can swing back to that
43:07
optimism I have with a change of government coming in. Right. We could dwell on this but then it wouldn’t be my quick fire round. Pick
43:14
another number. Six. Which business leader, living or dead,
43:20
would you most like to spend an afternoon with? I always admired Jack Walsh from GE. I
The Business Leader Steve Most Admires
43:25
thought he was a to force to GE to be the biggest company in the world. He was brutal as every strong leader is, but
43:32
you know, he diversified uh and led that organization through tremendous change and it was an amazing
43:38
company under his stewardship. it probably stretched its legs too far uh under the global financial crisis and
43:44
had to retract. But yeah, I’d love to spend some time with him. Right. So, I will allow a sidebar moment
43:50
here because presumably running a family business isn’t the same as running a business that is a family.
43:56
Yes. Jack Welsh was famous for having some quite strict guidelines about exactly
44:02
the number of people he would say goodbye to year on year. Yeah. Bottom 10%. So, how have you trod
44:08
the line leading a family business between of course looking after people but realizing that organizations that
44:15
don’t change don’t survive? Yeah, I think family businesses really reward loyalty. So, the the challenge in
Loyalty vs Talent in Family Business
44:22
family businesses is do we value talent as much as loyalty and I think the thing with talent is that talent needs a place
44:28
to find itself and bringing fresh talent in is really important. So it is always that balance behind being loyal to your
44:35
people uh uh respecting them knowing them you being part of their lives um
44:41
and wanting to bring new talent in. So it it is a balance and you know part of the reason we’re a very successful family business we’ve tried to balance
44:47
those two together. Really powerful. Uh final number three
44:53
which emerging technology are you most excited about?
The Technologies Steve Is Betting On
44:58
I mean the obvious thing to say you know clearly is AI but if I look at areas within AI you know we we are investing
45:06
very heavily in this infrastructure buildout uh and there are some really exciting areas there around what’s
45:11
happening on inference silicon and what’s happening happening on phetonix which is the transfer in the data center
45:17
via light of data. So we’re we’re quite excited about those two areas there they definitely feel a disruptive area of
45:23
technology and hopefully a place that we can be very successful making money in. Right. And really interesting to hear that these are things that are being
45:30
certainly built by a British company. To what extent are they being built in Britain because they’re certainly not
45:35
being simply sold to Britain? No. Help us understand. Unfortunately, these are US businesses I’m investing in. So, you know, um I I’m
45:42
a little more open-minded on where the technology sits and where the investment pool sits. We always talk about the fact
45:47
our great British businesses have US investors. I can tell you in spades we’re also investing in their companies as well.
45:53
So, you know, I I I would love to invest more in UK businesses. I I’m really pleased to see the best year ever in
46:00
2026 for new unicorns. They’re not just consumer businesses or fintexs, there’s
46:06
proper businesses coming out uh in that space. So, I I’m really hopeful the UK actually, you know, with
46:12
what’s happening in King’s Cross and what’s happening in the current uh new crop of larger UK ventureback
46:18
businesses, we’ve got quite an exciting future in the UK ahead. I’m very happy that you’ve name checked King’s Cross
46:24
there, the spiritual home of future forum. We look forward to seeing more of you there. Steve, um
46:31
we have a phrase which we keep coming back to on tomorrow, which is leave your lane and it’s that idea of learning from
46:37
different worlds, different sectors, maybe not being afraid to step outside one’s comfort zone from time to time.
46:44
What does that phrase leave your lane mean to you? How does it resonate? Yeah, I I use a slightly different one and in
Why You Should Live in “The Deep End”
46:49
fact I was with my 21-year-old son last night having a glass of wine. He’s just come back from two days in Paris at a
46:54
venture capital conference and I was keen to get the download from him and I call it the deep end. So you for me the
47:00
deep end is you know how deep do you want to go? Uh do you want to be near the side so you can go and grab it afterwards but I think living your life
47:07
in the deep end not all the time but for quite a bit of your time is really important. putting yourself out of your
47:13
comfort zone, stretching yourself in that room you go into to go and meet people you don’t know, however you choose to do it, I think is a really
47:19
critical part of learning. And I have to say, you know, Ollie, at the moment, I am learning partly because of AI being
47:25
this incredible, you know, world capability of learning. I’m learning at
47:30
the most ferocious rate I’ve ever learned in my life at this moment. And I hope that continues all my life. I love that. So, I’m really reminded
47:37
there’s a beautiful Andre Jed quote around, you know, you’ll never discover new lands unless you consent to losing
47:43
sight of the shore for a very long time. And that can feel quite um quite maybe nerve-wracking. Yeah.
47:49
At some points, most people don’t like being out their comfort zone, right? Yeah. How are you doing that learning? Is that is that Steve in front of a computer
47:56
screen? Are you working with others? How do you how you doing it? I I I spend a lot of time these days if I if I circle back to the sort of when I started using
How Steve Learns About the Future
48:03
AI a couple of years ago and you could start to watch YouTube videos via AI and get a transcript. I started to do that
48:10
and actually what I realized is you weren’t getting the essence of what you were watching and actually the bit AI can’t do is
48:17
tone, passion, energy, conviction. So I I learn a lot from
48:22
YouTube and I I I look at the varying uh YouTube videos I watch. Typically, this
48:27
is CEOs of of technology businesses or or good thinkers that I respect, economists,
48:34
um people like Jack Clark from Anthropic as an example. You I always I watch everything he produces and then I
48:40
crossorrelate what they’re saying with I try and look through my own journey of what I’m hearing and that helps me carve
48:45
my own thoughts about what the future might look like. Right? So, this is very interesting. So, someone might be uh tuning in and
48:52
saying, “Well, hang on a sec. Steve is running a4 billion pound business. He’s got over 8,000 employees. How is he
48:58
finding or making time? Yeah. To do these things because in several clues you’ve given us now, you are
49:03
opening up time that others might have thought was not available. I I you know I’m whether I’m lucky or cursed, I don’t know. I tend to work
49:09
seven days a week. I take a lot of time away out the country traveling uh and fortunate, you know, to be able to do to
49:16
do that. Uh so I don’t I don’t necessarily work a full working day every day, but I will work seven days a week. For me, Saturday
49:22
and Sunday mornings are some of the best most productive time I have available to me and I’ve just had a new baby, so
49:28
that’s all about to get kaoshed. Um, but they was some of the best time for me.
49:33
Uh, but you know, when it comes to watching things like YouTube videos, um, you know that I do that on trains and planes and cars. When it comes to
49:40
reading, I do that when I travel. A ferocious reader. I don’t read every page in a book. Uh, but that does allow
49:45
me to get through about 25 books a year. Unfortunately, I only read fiction. I only read fact rather than fiction. And
49:51
I don’t I don’t need to relax too much. Uh I really love what I’m doing. Yeah. You know, I’m passionate about it. So I
49:58
I do have probably an extended week to most people because I I stretched myself too far.
50:04
Getting we’re getting we’re getting some of the some of the secrets here. Um this is this is absolutely fascinating. So um
50:10
so thank well thank you first of all for giving us some some hope as well about the future of the UK. If we just briefly
50:16
think and I’m going to ask for your memo to the future. If we think about the future of the UK, what do you hope?
Can Britain Remain Globally Relevant?
50:24
I hope we keep our economic relevancy. I think it’s really important uh in a world where the world is going through
50:30
quite seismic change. You know, we’ve got China going to go from 1 and a half billion people down to 650 million by
50:37
the end of the century. We’ve got Japan, you know, which is reducing substantially its relevance in the
50:43
world. I think he’s due to go to the 11th largest economy. Uh and little old Britain if it keeps its head above the
50:49
water looking forward pedalling hard as we always need to do can sustain itself
50:54
as the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world and that matters. Our relevancy matters it matters militarily.
51:01
Uh it matters culturally you know we’ve always been amazing culturally uh you know it matters in the way in which we
51:07
conduct ourselves on the national stage. You know to Karma’s credit you know I I would give Karma a nine out of 10 on the
51:13
international stage. M uh you know he’s really done a good job keeping the UK in the fight in the
51:19
discussion at a very moment where the US have been very challenging to deal with. Uh so somehow you know this is the
51:25
balance that Andy Bernham as he comes into power will have to manage which I I I do hope appointing a very significant
51:31
foreign secretary allowing him to spend more time on domestic policy will be a good thing. But I I really
51:36
hope the UK can sustain itself and its relevance in the world. Right. Steve, I’ll ask you to uh ask all
51:42
our guests to share a memo to the future. Could be to your future self. Um a future chief exec. What do you say?
Steve Rigby’s Memo to the Future
51:49
I think we’ve got to start taking much bolder decisions in our future. Be that as a country or or as businesses. We’ve
51:56
got to get out of our own way. We put barriers around ourselves constantly. If we continue to do that, we’ll be
52:02
mediocre and if not careful, irrelevant. If we can continue to uh be bold in our
52:08
actions, have leadership, it is leadership that makes the difference in a business or in a country, then I
52:14
really believe the UK can be an amazingly successful country on a global stage. That is a terrific memo to the future.
52:21
Steve Riby, thank you so much for joining us tonight. Thanks for having me. Thank you. So that’s our guest for
52:26
this episode, Steve Riby, chief exec of Riby Group and someone who thinks very
52:33
deeply about the future for a whole multitude of reasons. Firstly,
52:38
stewarding a family business uh through some extraordinary success, but also somebody who I hope you’ve noticed as
52:46
clearly as I have really cares about the future of Britain, what that means for jobs, what that means for us being
52:51
connected with the rest of the world. someone who is interested in the country
52:56
at a national level but also very aware of their roots of placebased giving and
53:02
philanthropy. A fascinating joiner of dots. My head is buzzing. Uh and I hope
53:07
you’ve enjoyed the conversation. Please do share it with anyone you think would enjoy it. Uh so from future forum uh
53:13
this is tomorrow and until next time, goodbye.
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