00:00 I keep on saying that you start managing
00:02
00:02 not only your human beings and your
00:05
00:05 colleagues, but also digital workforce.
00:08
00:08 And when you combine these together and
00:10
00:10 create strong teams,
00:13
00:13 then I think that we can also take the
00:15
00:15 full power of AI. You need to move from
00:19
00:19 knowing everything
00:21
00:21 to learning everything. It’s more
00:24
00:24 important that we are taking the risks.
00:26
00:26 We know on how to mitigate some of these
00:29
00:29 risks. But everybody has an opportunity
00:33
00:33 to also
00:34
00:34 take
00:36
00:36 risks and as mentioned, learn faster.
00:39
00:39 >> What will the future of work be like?
00:46
00:46 >> Hello and welcome to Tomorrow, the
00:48
00:48 Future Forum podcast. I’m Ollie Barrett
00:51
00:51 and here at Future Forum, we are
00:53
00:53 passionate about bringing people
00:54
00:54 together from totally different worlds
00:57
00:57 to shape the future together because the
00:60
00:60 future is between us.
01:03
01:03 Speaking of which, I’m not the only host
01:05
01:05 today. I’m delighted to say I’m joined
01:06
01:06 by my co-host Victoria Usher. Very good
01:08
01:08 to see you.
01:09
01:09 >> Delighted to see you again, Ollie.
01:10
01:10 >> I’ve been looking forward to this
01:11
01:11 because today we’re welcoming Marika
01:14
01:14 Aramo, who leads Vodafone Business. So
01:17
01:17 not only a superstar leader, also
01:19
01:19 someone who is all about connectivity.
01:22
01:22 >> I am so excited about this interview,
01:24
01:24 Ollie. Marika is an amazing leader.
01:26
01:26 She’s worked at SAP for 25 years. It’s
01:29
01:29 her 2-year anniversary coming across the
01:30
01:30 Vodafone Business and she is facing a
01:33
01:33 time of disruption like never before as
01:35
01:35 many business leaders are. AI is coming
01:38
01:38 in. She is leading a huge organization.
01:40
01:40 I think she will clarify around 70
01:42
01:42 countries. So how do you lead a business
01:45
01:45 like this in this time of uncertainty
01:48
01:48 with no playbook. There is no
01:50
01:50 We’ve never been here before. So we’re
01:51
01:51 going to hear about that and more today.
01:53
01:53 >> Right. Well, we are all ears and worth
01:55
01:55 saying Vodafone global company, but
01:58
01:58 rooted right here in the United Kingdom.
02:00
02:00 So, Margherita
02:02
02:02 welcome to tomorrow.
02:03
02:03 >> Olli, Victoria, thank you for having me.
02:06
02:06 It’s great to be here with you.
02:07
02:07 >> So pleased to have you. So, Margherita,
02:09
02:09 tell us a little bit about yourself.
02:11
02:11 We’d love to know what it’s like leading
02:14
02:14 a huge business like Vodafone Business,
02:16
02:16 and tell us a little bit about yourself.
02:18
02:18 I know you’re Finnish. You’ve got So,
02:19
02:19 you’re going to have a You’re coming at
02:21
02:21 this with a slightly different cultural
02:22
02:22 nuance
02:24
02:24 leading from the UK. Tell us more.
02:26
02:26 >> Thank you. As as As you can hear, I come
02:28
02:28 from Finland because of my very old
02:30
02:30 accent, so sorry for that.
02:32
02:32 >> [laughter and gasps]
02:32
02:32 >> Maybe I start by just saying that I’m a
02:34
02:34 mother of two. I have two boys. I
02:36
02:36 actually spent last week in a Barcelona
02:39
02:39 because my youngest one graduated from
02:41
02:41 the Business School of Geneva, and the
02:43
02:43 oldest one graduated 4 years ago, and
02:45
02:45 maybe that is my biggest achievement.
02:47
02:47 And they are great young men, I have to
02:49
02:49 say.
02:50
02:50 And you know, I have an experience of 25
02:53
02:53 years of leading, so being responsible
02:56
02:56 for
02:58
02:58 for for
02:59
02:59 of course businesses, but also
03:01
03:01 transformation, and I had many
03:03
03:03 international roles, as you mentioned,
03:06
03:06 both in SAP, and now I’m very proud of
03:08
03:08 being part of one of the leading
03:11
03:11 telecommunication companies, Vodafone.
03:13
03:13 So, I’m responsible for Vodafone
03:15
03:15 Business. So, what is Vodafone Business?
03:17
03:17 We actually serving millions of
03:18
03:18 businesses
03:20
03:20 across 17 countries in Europe and in
03:23
03:23 Africa.
03:24
03:24 But we also serving through our
03:26
03:26 international network and through our
03:29
03:29 partner network.
03:31
03:31 So, we also serving more than
03:34
03:34 50 countries through our connectivity
03:36
03:36 and IoT solutions.
03:38
03:38 As as in Vodafone, we are saying that we
03:41
03:41 actually providing services from the
03:44
03:44 seabed
03:45
03:45 to the sky.
03:46
03:46 >> Mhm.
03:47
03:47 >> So, satellites, but also we are actually
03:49
03:49 one of the leading sea cable operators
03:52
03:52 as well.
03:54
03:54 And then of course we are known as the
03:56
03:56 connectivity company. You mentioned AI.
03:59
03:59 I I strongly believe that now because of
04:02
04:02 AI it’s even more important to have
04:04
04:04 reliable low latency connectivity
04:07
04:07 solutions. But in Vodafone business we
04:09
04:09 actually are solution portfolio goes
04:12
04:12 beyond connectivity. So of course AI
04:15
04:15 cloud cyber security which is very
04:17
04:17 important. We are one of the leading uh
04:20
04:20 IoT providers. In fact we have more than
04:24
04:24 250 IoT connections already available.
04:27
04:27 Finally also we are not serving only
04:30
04:30 multinational big companies but we are
04:34
04:34 serving very very small startup
04:36
04:36 companies, SME, public sector companies
04:39
04:39 and of course as I have mentioned we are
04:41
04:41 also
04:42
04:42 a provider to vast the multinational
04:45
04:45 companies.
04:45
04:45 >> Incredible. Huge scope. So
04:48
04:48 thinking about what you notice today and
04:51
04:51 we try to fast forward and look in the
04:53
04:53 crystal ball. I know it’s impossible to
04:55
04:55 you know to to make
04:57
04:57 a really firm prediction. But how do you
04:58
04:58 think the what will the future of work
05:00
05:00 be like if you can have that crystal
05:02
05:02 ball look forward?
05:03
05:03 >> It’s a very interesting question.
05:07
05:07 If we reflect now and think that whether
05:09
05:09 we knew 10 years ago how the work or the
05:13
05:13 businesses look like today, we wouldn’t
05:16
05:16 I I’m pretty sure that none of us would
05:17
05:17 have thought about AI. Maybe we were
05:19
05:19 talking about the machine learning or
05:21
05:21 whatever. So it’s very very difficult to
05:24
05:24 say. But of course AI is changing
05:26
05:26 everything. But very often actually we
05:28
05:28 are talking about AI whether it’s AI or
05:31
05:31 human beings. I I think that the future
05:35
05:35 uh will not be AI versus human beings.
05:40
05:40 I believe that it will be human beings
05:42
05:42 powered by AI. So this is what I
05:45
05:45 actually believe in. But of course it’s
05:47
05:47 changing everything because AI it’s
05:50
05:50 um actually
05:52
05:52 touches every knowledge worker,
05:55
05:55 processes.
05:56
05:56 It also actually changes the way of
06:01
06:01 working. So, from that perspective, it
06:03
06:03 also creates new challenges and
06:05
06:05 opportunities for leaders.
06:07
06:07 >> What are some of the opportunities
06:08
06:08 you’re seeing with AI?
06:10
06:10 >> First of all, I think that we as as
06:12
06:12 leaders, we need to start combining
06:15
06:15 human and AI talent.
06:17
06:17 I keep on saying that you start managing
06:19
06:19 not only your human beings and your
06:21
06:21 colleagues, but also digital workforce.
06:25
06:25 And when you combine these together and
06:27
06:27 create strong teams, um then I think
06:30
06:30 that we can also take the full power of
06:33
06:33 AI. But, there will be a lot of
06:35
06:35 uncertainty.
06:36
06:36 >> And I I think as a leader as well, some
06:38
06:38 of this is just creating confidence with
06:41
06:41 your workforce, isn’t it? To embrace it.
06:43
06:43 I would imagine that’s part of your
06:44
06:44 remit. So,
06:45
06:45 to
06:46
06:46 so that people aren’t so fearful about
06:48
06:48 what it means cuz there is so much
06:49
06:49 negative press around this, right?
06:51
06:51 >> Yeah. But, I think that also, you know,
06:55
06:55 I’m visiting I’m happy that I’m visiting
06:57
06:57 customers on a on a weekly basis, and
06:59
06:59 very often we are also discussing with
07:01
07:01 many of the CEOs and other senior
07:03
07:03 leaders that, you know, how to deploy AI
07:06
07:06 in
07:07
07:07 in in the best possible way at scale and
07:10
07:10 get all the advantages and business
07:13
07:13 outcome.
07:14
07:14 And I truly believe that the as I said
07:18
07:18 as mentioned, the leaders who can
07:20
07:20 combine
07:21
07:21 human
07:23
07:23 knowledge
07:23
07:23 >> Mhm.
07:24
07:24 >> and AI will be the winners who will be
07:26
07:26 also learn very fast. But, then finally,
07:30
07:30 there are also some some other aspects
07:31
07:31 that we need to consider as leaders.
07:33
07:33 How do you actually deploy AI in in in
07:37
07:37 in the most responsible
07:39
07:39 and way? Security
07:42
07:42 Um is uh important and for instance in
07:45
07:45 in in Vodafone, we have actually created
07:47
07:47 a kind of responsible
07:49
07:49 um use of AI framework in order to make
07:53
07:53 sure that we also take into
07:55
07:55 consideration ethical aspects of of of
07:59
07:59 deploying AI.
07:60
08:00 >> Mhm.
08:01
08:01 Can you give us examples of what that
08:03
08:03 would cover?
08:04
08:04 >> It would cover, first of all,
08:05
08:05 regulations. Regulations in EU EU in in
08:09
08:09 the UK, but as I mentioned, we are
08:11
08:11 operating um not only in in these 17
08:13
08:13 countries, but we are serving customers
08:15
08:15 in the US, um in Asia, in in in the
08:18
08:18 Middle East. So, you need to uh be sure
08:20
08:20 that you always comply with the with the
08:23
08:23 um you know,
08:24
08:24 regulations that you may have in
08:26
08:26 different countries. This is one.
08:28
08:28 And then finally, um um
08:30
08:30 AI can actually help you to to analyze a
08:33
08:33 lot of information. I’m actually using
08:35
08:35 AI on a daily basis and I can see that
08:37
08:37 my productivity, hopefully, has has
08:39
08:39 increased a lot. But finally, it’s the
08:41
08:41 human being who must validate the
08:43
08:43 information and who is making the final
08:46
08:46 decision. So, this is one. Data
08:48
08:48 protection um is is is one important um
08:52
08:52 thing that you need to consider as as as
08:54
08:54 as well. So, while you are actually you
08:58
08:58 unleash the power of AI, you need to
09:00
09:00 also follow certain frameworks and this
09:02
09:02 is something that you know, we have been
09:05
09:05 actually focusing on in in Vodafone and
09:08
09:08 also we are actually helping customers
09:10
09:10 to navigate uh through this journey.
09:14
09:14 >> Understood.
09:15
09:15 >> Is there something something I wanted to
09:16
09:16 ask a bit more about? You’ve talked
09:18
09:18 about the bigger picture and about IoT,
09:20
09:20 which I think means um you know, the
09:22
09:22 Internet of Things, but just help us
09:23
09:23 understand what those things could be
09:26
09:26 because what it’s connecting is a whole
09:28
09:28 infrastructure, really. So, just help us
09:30
09:30 bring that to life a little bit. What
09:31
09:31 would we see?
09:33
09:33 >> Maybe in IoT, [clears throat] I would
09:34
09:34 actually like to use few um examples.
09:37
09:37 First of all,
09:38
09:38 um almost all the um um European uh car
09:41
09:41 manufacturers, they are customers. And
09:43
09:43 you need to have a connected car. So,
09:45
09:45 this is one. Um it’s even a regulation
09:47
09:47 that um
09:48
09:48 should there be an accident,
09:50
09:50 >> Yeah.
09:50
09:50 >> um immediately um your car is um
09:53
09:53 being connected with the closest um
09:56
09:56 emergency
09:57
09:57 >> Right. [clears throat] You push that SOS
09:58
09:58 button.
09:59
09:59 >> Yes, this is one.
10:01
10:01 Healthcare.
10:02
10:02 So, we are helping to save people’s
10:04
10:04 lives. In fact, um our um
10:08
10:08 I think it was um the one milestone that
10:10
10:10 we were hitting um almost a year ago um
10:13
10:13 to achieve uh 200 million connections.
10:16
10:16 I’m very happy that uh that connection
10:19
10:19 was with a pacemaker. Or of course, you
10:21
10:21 have IoT uh connectivity is becoming
10:24
10:24 more important um when you many
10:27
10:27 manufacturing plants are fully
10:29
10:29 automated. And there are many, many uh
10:31
10:31 good examples why IoT is super
10:34
10:34 important. Elevators. You need to have
10:36
10:36 elevators connected to the, you know,
10:39
10:39 emergency centers if should there be um
10:42
10:42 any issues. But even before the issues,
10:45
10:45 elevator companies, they are actually
10:46
10:46 monitoring,
10:47
10:47 you know, all the elevators or
10:50
10:50 escalators that they are having um in in
10:52
10:52 in the shopping malls or at the airports
10:55
10:55 or whatever. So, there are many, many
10:57
10:57 use cases.
10:57
10:57 >> Yeah, and fascinating for us to see how
11:00
11:00 you might then cross-pollinate ideas
11:02
11:02 between different sectors, who’s ready
11:03
11:03 for what, how things are moving. Um the
11:06
11:06 only other one, and forgive my
11:07
11:07 ignorance, you talked about latency and
11:09
11:09 I have to go back to school, I know,
11:10
11:10 here. But just remind us what that means
11:12
11:12 and why it’s important for your
11:13
11:13 customers.
11:14
11:14 >> It’s um
11:16
11:16 you have fully modern automated
11:18
11:18 manufacturing side. I actually test
11:20
11:20 visited uh one of our customer um you
11:22
11:22 know, um manufacturing sites and it’s
11:25
11:25 amazing. Of course, you have still
11:26
11:26 people, but um many, many, many
11:29
11:29 functions are fully automated.
11:31
11:31 Think of of a robot
11:34
11:34 that suddenly is uh suffering from the
11:36
11:36 low latency. And suddenly your whole
11:39
11:39 supply chain inside of the manufacturing
11:42
11:42 site, it’s not working according to your
11:45
11:45 predefined
11:47
11:47 you know chain.
11:48
11:48 >> So this is speed, isn’t it? Latency.
11:50
11:50 >> It’s speed. So you need to make sure
11:52
11:52 that there is low latency.
11:54
11:54 The same goes to you know
11:58
11:58 we are also creating for instance uh
12:01
12:01 uh private mobile networks for some of
12:04
12:04 our customers.
12:06
12:06 For instance, some of the car
12:07
12:07 manufacturers
12:09
12:09 are using uh
12:12
12:12 They needed to have low latency. So they
12:14
12:14 need to make sure that there is a
12:15
12:15 security
12:16
12:16 taken into consideration, but more
12:18
12:18 importantly also that there is almost no
12:21
12:21 latency in order to make sure that
12:23
12:23 everything works smoothly.
12:25
12:25 >> So you’re actually
12:27
12:27 really right at the front of digital
12:29
12:29 transformation, aren’t you, in these new
12:30
12:30 innovations around technology?
12:32
12:32 >> Yes.
12:32
12:32 >> Cuz internet of things, I mean it’s
12:34
12:34 okay, it’s been around for 10 years.
12:36
12:36 >> But what we’re starting to see is it’s
12:38
12:38 starting to integrate more and more. You
12:39
12:39 mentioned robots, you know, that’s
12:41
12:41 obviously you know, that’s going to be
12:42
12:42 one of the next big frontiers where we
12:44
12:44 see robots coming into the workplace or
12:46
12:46 more into the home actually. We did
12:48
12:48 actually have an interview, didn’t we, a
12:49
12:49 few weeks ago
12:50
12:50 about robot technology. So it’s really
12:52
12:52 interesting to hear that Vodafone
12:54
12:54 business is powering all of that
12:56
12:56 technology.
12:57
12:57 >> I just actually saw robots and they were
13:01
13:01 rescue dogs.
13:03
13:03 >> Oh.
13:03
13:03 >> And they were robots.
13:04
13:04 And think about the fire. You have a
13:07
13:07 fire and you need to actually enter
13:11
13:11 the place where actually any human being
13:14
13:14 firefighter would be at risk. Now you
13:16
13:16 can put the robot that it can actually
13:18
13:18 maybe see what is the situation even you
13:22
13:22 know
13:23
13:23 be a
13:24
13:24 firefighter but it’s a robot that is a
13:27
13:27 one example or
13:29
13:29 we uh also have mountain rescue dogs
13:33
13:33 that are robots.
13:35
13:35 >> Incredible.
13:35
13:35 >> Yeah.
13:35
13:35 >> Incredible.
13:36
13:36 >> must [clears throat] be also connected.
13:37
13:37 >> Yeah, and you think well you think about
13:39
13:39 drones as well and any any of this will
13:41
13:41 then have that mobile connectivity
13:43
13:43 inbuilt presumably.
13:45
13:45 >> And for for mountain dogs they would
13:46
13:46 have I mean I it’s obvious but they can
13:48
13:48 be up a mountain with you know it’s
13:50
13:50 quite remote.
13:51
13:51 >> Yes.
13:51
13:51 >> So you it’s going to be the best type of
13:53
13:53 connectivity like to satellite?
13:55
13:55 >> Satellite yeah yeah yeah.
13:56
13:56 >> Yeah.
13:57
13:57 >> Yeah.
13:57
13:57 >> That’s amazing.
13:58
13:58 >> Yes.
13:59
13:59 >> It’s amazing.
13:59
13:59 >> What other technologies are you
14:00
14:00 powering?
14:02
14:02 So internet things what what other
14:03
14:03 things can we kind of look forward to
14:05
14:05 hearing about because I think when we
14:07
14:07 talk about technology a lot of consumers
14:09
14:09 don’t really hear about them. Ollie and
14:11
14:11 I are very closely connected to the
14:12
14:12 technology world that’s why we know
14:14
14:14 about this but is there anything else
14:15
14:15 that you can tell our listeners about in
14:18
14:18 terms of kind of new innovations or new
14:20
14:20 things that that you’re involved
14:22
14:22 >> so there are so many innovations of
14:24
14:24 course
14:25
14:25 um you know I can tell you that we are
14:27
14:27 working on so many new ideas at the
14:29
14:29 moment.
14:29
14:29 >> But you can’t tell us so you can’t say.
14:31
14:31 >> Not at all not at all yeah.
14:32
14:32 >> Okay we’ll have to get get you back on
14:33
14:33 again so you can tell us a little bit
14:34
14:34 more about it.
14:36
14:36 Um
14:37
14:37 >> Well I mean I I you are hinting at a
14:39
14:39 much wider point and back to the
14:40
14:40 undersea cables this is about security.
14:43
14:43 It’s about the infrastructure that keeps
14:45
14:45 things moving um day-to-day and
14:48
14:48 you know mapping that internationally
14:50
14:50 must mean that your clients and I don’t
14:52
14:52 know to what extent this forms part of
14:54
14:54 the business unit but your clients must
14:55
14:55 be across every sector as well.
14:57
14:57 >> They are.
14:58
14:58 From all different industries.
15:01
15:01 From all different industries.
15:03
15:03 >> It’s a fascinating history I was
15:05
15:05 reading up on cuz you know founded out
15:07
15:07 of the UK headquarters to this day in
15:09
15:09 Newbury. Um the first ever text message
15:12
15:12 was sent um
15:14
15:14 on a Vodafone network.
15:15
15:15 >> Yes.
15:15
15:15 >> The first ever mobile phone call was
15:17
15:17 made on a Vodafone network.
15:20
15:20 >> yes yes.
15:21
15:21 >> You are the OG, exactly.
15:24
15:24 >> [laughter and gasps]
15:25
15:25 >> What an incredible history. Yeah. And
15:27
15:27 wasn’t that long ago? When was the
15:28
15:28 company founded?
15:30
15:30 >> More than 40 years ago.
15:31
15:31 >> Yeah, just about 40, isn’t it? 40 years
15:33
15:33 ago, yeah.
15:33
15:33 >> We had our 40-years anniversary
15:35
15:35 celebration last year.
15:37
15:37 >> So, bring it back to your style of
15:38
15:38 leadership. Um
15:41
15:41 we we have already talked about AI, so
15:42
15:42 we don’t want to go back into that pot
15:44
15:44 again. But, this is an unprecedented
15:46
15:46 time, I’m going to call it that, just
15:48
15:48 because
15:49
15:49 there is so much happening at the
15:50
15:50 moment. And there’s so much political
15:52
15:52 unrest and uncertainty in the world. And
15:54
15:54 people are saying this is the biggest
15:56
15:56 change there’s ever been. But, I’m I’m
15:58
15:58 sure that every generation thinks the
15:59
15:59 same. So, how do you What’s your style
16:01
16:01 of leadership in times of change? How do
16:03
16:03 you How do you communicate with your
16:05
16:05 team? What’s What What do people think
16:07
16:07 about Marika the leader, do you think?
16:10
16:10 >> Before before I actually answer that,
16:12
16:12 maybe you’re also actually brought up a
16:14
16:14 very actually important topic, and we
16:17
16:17 need all need to navigate through this
16:19
16:19 uncertain. There is more uh more
16:20
16:20 uncertain than what I I I feel that I
16:24
16:24 have ever experienced during my, you
16:26
16:26 know,
16:27
16:27 30 years in in in in the software and
16:30
16:30 now in in the telco industry. So, I
16:32
16:32 think first of all, as a leader, you
16:34
16:34 need to make sure that
16:36
16:36 you
16:37
16:37 ensure that there is a purpose.
16:38
16:38 Everybody needs to have a purpose. You
16:40
16:40 need to also make sure that there is a
16:42
16:42 clarity. So, regardless of this
16:44
16:44 uncertainty, there are certain elements
16:47
16:47 that are
16:49
16:49 remain unchanged. As a leader, you need
16:52
16:52 to give clarity.
16:54
16:54 You need to build trust,
16:56
16:56 which is very important.
16:57
16:57 You need to make sure that your people
16:59
16:59 are being heard, and you need to create
17:01
17:01 an environment where people can feel
17:04
17:04 psychological safety.
17:06
17:06 And then they can learn fast. And
17:09
17:09 nowadays, I feel that this is very
17:11
17:11 important. You, as an organization, you
17:14
17:14 need to
17:15
17:15 You don’t You need to move from knowing
17:18
17:18 everything
17:20
17:20 uh to learning everything.
17:22
17:22 So,
17:23
17:23 this is very very very important. So,
17:26
17:26 those are some of the leadership um I I
17:28
17:28 think that principles that you need to
17:30
17:30 have regardless of of of the time when
17:32
17:32 you are actually leading. So, this is
17:34
17:34 one. And then, of course, communication
17:36
17:36 is
17:37
17:37 super important and um
17:40
17:40 when you are leading, especially now.
17:43
17:43 So, the I I feel that the most
17:46
17:46 successful companies will be the ones
17:48
17:48 who are innovating. And how do you
17:51
17:51 innovate? You need to have a lot of
17:53
17:53 experiment
17:55
17:55 mental, you know, and trials and
17:58
17:58 when you actually
18:01
18:01 do test different things, sometimes you
18:03
18:03 also fail. So, this is
18:05
18:05 as a leader also important that people
18:07
18:07 know that you can make mistakes. And
18:10
18:10 some of these experimental project, they
18:14
18:14 may even fail. And I feel that failure
18:17
18:17 as information. So, how do you use this
18:21
18:21 information to learn and learn faster
18:25
18:25 compared to your competitors?
18:27
18:27 And furthermore,
18:29
18:29 you know,
18:30
18:30 um
18:31
18:31 I think that the companies
18:35
18:35 are at risk of failing if suddenly they
18:38
18:38 become afraid of trials.
18:42
18:42 And
18:44
18:44 then, they don’t learn from their
18:46
18:46 mistakes. They hide their mistakes or
18:49
18:49 they repeat their mistakes. So, that’s
18:52
18:52 why I try to also create an environment
18:54
18:54 where everybody knows that, “Hey, it’s
18:56
18:56 more important that we are taking the
18:58
18:58 risks. We know on how to mitigate some
19:02
19:02 of these risks, but everybody has an
19:04
19:04 opportunity to also
19:07
19:07 take
19:08
19:08 risks. And as mentioned, learn faster.”
19:12
19:12 >> Yeah, you get innovation from failure. I
19:14
19:14 know at schools they uh they now taught
19:17
19:17 they were teaching my children fair and
19:18
19:18 it was first attempt in learning, which
19:20
19:20 I thought was wonderful. And some of the
19:23
19:23 best British brands, I’m thinking of
19:24
19:24 Dyson, I can’t remember how many
19:26
19:26 hundreds or thousands of iterations he
19:28
19:28 made
19:30
19:30 before he then came up with a successful
19:31
19:31 innovation and totally pivoted the whole
19:34
19:34 sector. So, yes, you don’t become a
19:36
19:36 leading business without actually
19:37
19:37 >> One of our one of our previous guests,
19:40
19:40 Josh from Space Forge, has
19:42
19:42 a failure of the month.
19:44
19:44 >> Yeah, yeah. You
19:45
19:45 need to celebrate failure of the month.
19:48
19:48 >> It’s
19:49
19:49 it’s really important point there about
19:50
19:50 psychological safety, just feeling A
19:53
19:53 that you can discuss it and really
19:56
19:56 unpack something
19:58
19:58 and not just feeling kind to sweep
19:60
19:60 something under the carpet and for
20:01
20:01 goodness sake don’t tell the boss.
20:02
20:02 >> Yeah.
20:03
20:03 >> Really really important signal that
20:05
20:05 you’re sending there.
20:07
20:07 >> Very important. Um something that has
20:09
20:09 been said to me by your team is they
20:11
20:11 described you as authentic, which I
20:13
20:13 thought was a wonderful description
20:14
20:14 actually. Not many people are called
20:16
20:16 that now.
20:17
20:17 And you’re you’re from a Nordic
20:19
20:19 background. So, I think it is an
20:21
20:21 important cultural difference. What do
20:23
20:23 you think you bring from your
20:24
20:24 upbringing, from your Nordic heritage
20:27
20:27 into your role in the UK as this global
20:30
20:30 leader?
20:32
20:32 >> I think in the Nordic countries
20:35
20:35 we tend to focus on on trust versus
20:39
20:39 control.
20:41
20:41 Many organizations in the Nordic
20:44
20:44 countries because I have been also
20:45
20:45 responsible for for the Nordic
20:49
20:49 businesses. Of course, there are some
20:50
20:50 differences between
20:52
20:52 Finnish and Swedish and Norwegian and
20:54
20:54 Danish, you know, corporate culture and
20:56
20:56 also the cultures are slightly
20:58
20:58 different. You don’t always see it when
21:00
21:00 you look at the Nordic countries
21:04
21:04 even from from the UK.
21:06
21:06 But this trust
21:09
21:09 versus um
21:11
21:11 control, I think this is
21:13
21:13 a difference. Also, organizations are
21:16
21:16 very flat.
21:18
21:18 So, there is a tendency to give a lot of
21:20
21:20 um
21:22
21:22 freedom, but also
21:23
21:23 um
21:25
21:25 trust and accountability to people, even
21:28
21:28 young people.
21:30
21:30 And then they are being supported.
21:32
21:32 And I have seen that when you give
21:34
21:34 trust, but at the very same time,
21:36
21:36 everybody knows that I’m also
21:37
21:37 accountable for for the results, then
21:40
21:40 you see that
21:42
21:42 the organizations are making
21:44
21:44 faster decisions. And I have seen that
21:47
21:47 the results are actually very very very
21:49
21:49 good. People are also they have more
21:51
21:51 freedom to speak up because, you know,
21:54
21:54 that is our culture, you know. You have
21:56
21:56 an environment where there is a
21:58
21:58 psychological safety. I think that those
22:00
22:00 are some of the learnings that we could
22:02
22:02 also take to the UK despite of the fact
22:05
22:05 that I feel that my organization is
22:07
22:07 also, you know, very open-minded. We
22:10
22:10 have a psychological safety. We have a
22:12
22:12 rather actually
22:14
22:14 flat organization, but I think
22:18
22:18 that maybe background that I got from
22:20
22:20 the Nordics, I I I really value.
22:24
22:24 >> Right.
22:25
22:25 Um
22:26
22:26 I want to ask you about changing your
22:28
22:28 lane. It’s one of our questions we ask
22:30
22:30 everybody on Future Forum.
22:33
22:33 Um so, what have you learned?
22:35
22:35 >> You’ve You’ve done so many different
22:37
22:37 roles
22:38
22:38 across, you know, many countries.
22:41
22:41 Previously, we talked about SAP and and
22:43
22:43 and and now you’re at Vodafone Business.
22:45
22:45 So, what’s one of the biggest learnings
22:47
22:47 you’ve you’ve learned from changing
22:48
22:48 lanes?
22:49
22:49 >> First of all, I think that um
22:51
22:51 in order to become a little bit better
22:54
22:54 leader, you need to change your lanes.
22:56
22:56 You need to also take risks. You need to
22:59
22:59 actually um
23:01
23:01 even if you sometimes feel that you are
23:03
23:03 not ready, you need to
23:06
23:06 move on and
23:08
23:08 actually try something else.
23:11
23:11 Um,
23:12
23:12 as as you mentioned, I have been living
23:14
23:14 in different countries. I have been
23:15
23:15 moving from one function and from
23:17
23:17 business from others and um
23:20
23:20 that journey has taught me more about
23:23
23:23 businesses, but also about my
23:26
23:26 by from my
23:28
23:28 you know, from Marika. So, I have become
23:31
23:31 stronger person
23:33
23:33 because suddenly when you are working in
23:35
23:35 a different culture
23:38
23:38 and in a different environment, you
23:40
23:40 actually notice that your perspective
23:44
23:44 of course, everybody has his or her own
23:46
23:46 perspective, but it’s not the only one.
23:50
23:50 And then you
23:52
23:52 become strong enough to be humble
23:55
23:55 to start listening
23:58
23:58 and before you acting.
23:60
24:00 I tend to listen, I validate and then I
24:03
24:03 act.
24:04
24:04 >> Incredible.
24:06
24:06 And I would say you’re also very rare
24:07
24:07 breed because you’re a female leader
24:11
24:11 of a very big
24:13
24:13 organization.
24:15
24:15 Having a look at the FTSE 500, just just
24:17
24:17 doing my research before, about 10% of
24:19
24:19 women are leading
24:21
24:21 FTSE 500 companies.
24:23
24:23 So, why do we still have only 10% of
24:27
24:27 leaders when you know, you have made it
24:29
24:29 to the the very top. You’re obviously
24:31
24:31 you have an incredibly loyal team, you
24:34
24:34 know, everybody talks so positively
24:36
24:36 about your
24:37
24:37 your contribution to the business.
24:39
24:39 What’s going on in your opinion?
24:41
24:41 >> Do we have only 10%? I don’t believe
24:43
24:43 you. I don’t believe [laughter] you.
24:45
24:45 Here I’m working in Vodafone, you know,
24:48
24:48 I used my executive committee as as an
24:50
24:50 example. 50/50. 50% men, 50% women. Our
24:55
24:55 group CEO
24:57
24:57 our group CFO.
24:59
24:59 Um,
25:00
25:00 they are
25:01
25:01 >> [clears throat]
25:01
25:01 >> great female leaders. So, I I we don’t
25:04
25:04 say so, but I remember when I entered
25:07
25:07 the business at that time maybe we had
25:09
25:09 fewer role models. You know, women role
25:12
25:12 models. At least I didn’t have too many.
25:15
25:15 Uh, so I think that nowadays uh I I see
25:17
25:17 that they are much more um you know
25:20
25:20 female leaders um um
25:22
25:22 also here in the UK. I have many
25:24
25:24 customers and they are female customers.
25:27
25:27 Um, so from that perspective I I think
25:29
25:29 that the things have changed a lot.
25:32
25:32 Um, then furthermore I think that um you
25:35
25:35 shouldn’t actually consider that when
25:38
25:38 you are a leader that you should fit
25:40
25:40 into a kind of predefined
25:42
25:42 role.
25:43
25:43 You need to follow your values and be
25:46
25:46 true to your values.
25:48
25:48 And then of course you need to be
25:49
25:49 effective. You need to deliver. That is
25:51
25:51 also very important. But at the very
25:54
25:54 same time I keep on saying that
25:56
25:56 regardless whether you are a man or or
25:58
25:58 or a woman you need to have a high
26:00
26:00 integrity. You need to lead from the
26:03
26:03 front and you need to be a role model.
26:05
26:05 >> Mhm. Absolutely. You’ve got And also you
26:07
26:07 have to see it to be it I think. So, it
26:09
26:09 helps when you have more women I think.
26:12
26:12 More women creates more women because
26:14
26:14 you know as as you say there’s there’s
26:15
26:15 uh role models to look at.
26:16
26:16 >> now supporting and actually coaching and
26:18
26:18 mentoring many many young great female
26:22
26:22 talent.
26:23
26:23 >> Yeah. How are we going to change it up
26:25
26:25 to do to get more to get more women
26:27
26:27 in senior leadership roles?
26:29
26:29 >> When I started um I was actually working
26:32
26:32 9 years for two startup companies and I
26:35
26:35 remember that I maybe I was very lucky.
26:37
26:37 Um, I was surrounded by men.
26:39
26:39 Zero zero at that time. Zero
26:42
26:42 women in those two startup companies.
26:46
26:46 But I was very lucky because I was
26:48
26:48 supported by some great men. Mhm. And
26:51
26:51 they saw some potential and talent on me
26:54
26:54 and they pushed me. And I think this is
26:56
26:56 one of my learning. I try to actually
26:58
26:58 push some of the leaders to take risks.
27:00
27:00 And many many
27:02
27:02 even super talented young women, they
27:05
27:05 feel that they cannot move on before
27:07
27:07 they are 100% ready. And I think this is
27:10
27:10 the mistake.
27:11
27:11 How do you build confidence? You don’t
27:13
27:13 build confidence by waiting, but taking
27:16
27:16 the action. So.
27:18
27:18 >> And taking taking the risk.
27:19
27:19 >> Yes. Yes. And then of course you can
27:22
27:22 actually ask support. You can you need
27:24
27:24 to build your network. You should focus
27:28
27:28 more on the opportunities where you can
27:30
27:30 grow and you can actually have an
27:32
27:32 accelerated development instead of
27:35
27:35 you know, looking for the right title.
27:38
27:38 So that is also one of my actually
27:40
27:40 advice to these young women. But then
27:44
27:44 please
27:45
27:45 take risks. If you fail, it doesn’t you
27:49
27:49 know, it doesn’t really
27:51
27:51 make such a big difference. And usually
27:53
27:53 they don’t actually fail. Or even if you
27:56
27:56 sometimes you are not 100% ready, you
27:59
27:59 can actually learn when you actually
28:02
28:02 jump into cold water.
28:05
28:05 >> Can I just ask you Susan a few slightly
28:07
28:07 more quick fire questions? You’ve talked
28:09
28:09 about learning a couple of times. How do
28:12
28:12 you make time to do that? What’s an
28:14
28:14 example of how you’re doing that?
28:16
28:16 Because on the one hand, you’re running
28:18
28:18 this
28:19
28:19 very large business and on the other
28:21
28:21 you’re already saying that you are
28:22
28:22 learning all the time. So how does that
28:23
28:23 happen in practice?
28:24
28:24 >> I hope that I’m learning all the time.
28:27
28:27 First of all, first we have been talking
28:28
28:28 about leadership. I think that as a
28:30
28:30 leader I’m never ready. I’m not
28:33
28:33 I feel that
28:34
28:34 I’m on this journey and every
28:37
28:37 week I’m still learning something new
28:40
28:40 about the leadership as well. And I’m
28:41
28:41 also failing. I’m making mistakes, but
28:44
28:44 I’m actually also seeking feedback from
28:46
28:46 my team on a on a
28:48
28:48 on a regular basis.
28:50
28:50 But, how do I First of all, I read
28:53
28:53 books. Now I Nowadays, I use AI. I use a
28:56
28:56 lot of AI. Actually, it’s actually a
28:58
28:58 great asset to actually learn many
28:60
28:60 things. You don’t need to ask always
29:02
29:02 your experts. You can ask your co-pilot
29:05
29:05 to actually create a report, and then
29:07
29:07 you validate the findings with with your
29:09
29:09 team members.
29:11
29:11 Then very often actually I ask one of my
29:14
29:14 experts that they Hey,
29:16
29:16 consider me as a customer. How would you
29:18
29:18 pitch this solution? You know, what are
29:20
29:20 the key benefits that we should start
29:22
29:22 actually gaining?
29:24
29:24 So, I’m actually
29:26
29:26 asking them to give me an elevator
29:30
29:30 pitch. So, there is an opportunity to
29:32
29:32 always
29:33
29:33 learn something new
29:35
29:35 when you also
29:36
29:36 spend time with with your great
29:37
29:37 colleagues.
29:38
29:38 >> I like that. So, what’s an example,
29:40
29:40 Marika, on the AI front of how you’re
29:43
29:43 using AI to learn
29:46
29:46 as a co-pilot, as you say, or maybe even
29:47
29:47 using co-pilot, although other products
29:49
29:49 are
29:49
29:49 >> I’m actually using almost all the AI
29:51
29:51 tools.
29:52
29:52 >> So, what’s an example of exactly how
29:54
29:54 you’re using it in a way that one of
29:56
29:56 your peers might say, Marika, I thought
29:58
29:58 that sounded a bit weird, but actually
29:60
29:60 that’s very good. What’s the what How
30:01
30:01 does it How does it happen?
30:03
30:03 >> I’m actually very proud of Vodafone’s
30:06
30:06 IT team because they have created a kind
30:09
30:09 of
30:10
30:10 AI agents for different purposes. So,
30:12
30:12 it’s maybe easier for me to actually
30:15
30:15 find the right information and create
30:18
30:18 these reports and analyze many things
30:20
30:20 because I have my own digital workforce
30:23
30:23 helping me to get the right answers.
30:26
30:26 And this is also something that we in
30:29
30:29 Vodafone Business I feel that it’s one
30:31
30:31 of our key objective to help also our
30:33
30:33 customers to unlock the potential of
30:37
30:37 technology
30:39
30:39 and different capabilities and including
30:42
30:42 AI. Many of our customer CEOs, they are
30:46
30:46 also asking that how do we deploy, for
30:49
30:49 instance, AI at scale, but at the very
30:51
30:51 same time, make sure that it’s also
30:53
30:53 being used in in the most responsible
30:56
30:56 and also
30:58
30:58 secured way. And we are helping them to
31:01
31:01 navigate through through this actually
31:05
31:05 very interesting
31:07
31:07 time.
31:07
31:07 >> Yeah. But again, it’s it’s it’s very
31:09
31:09 authentic, isn’t it? Because I’ve heard
31:11
31:11 a few politicians recently who will say
31:13
31:13 on the one hand,
31:14
31:14 AI is so important, but then when you
31:16
31:16 quiz them, they say, “Well, I don’t
31:17
31:17 actually use any of it myself.” And it
31:20
31:20 doesn’t feel quite connected.
31:22
31:22 >> feel authentic.
31:23
31:23 >> It doesn’t say it’s helpful.
31:25
31:25 >> All almost all different AI tools at the
31:28
31:28 moment. It depends on also on the use
31:31
31:31 case. My oldest son, he’s an art
31:34
31:34 director and
31:36
31:36 I actually had a
31:37
31:37 last weekend a discussion with with with
31:39
31:39 him because first he thought that
31:41
31:41 because of course he’s very creative and
31:44
31:44 he was telling that maybe AI is actually
31:47
31:47 taking my, you know, job and whatever.
31:49
31:49 He’s saying that no, you cannot actually
31:54
31:54 >> [sighs and gasps]
31:54
31:54 >> First of all, you will be become
31:56
31:56 obsolete if you don’t embrace new
31:59
31:59 capabilities.
32:01
32:01 So he decided that, “Hey, instead of
32:03
32:03 seeing it as as a as a risk, maybe I can
32:05
32:05 actually see on how actually I can
32:07
32:07 actually use it in order to support my
32:11
32:11 customers in the better way.” And he’s
32:13
32:13 saying that he’s actually
32:15
32:15 using it when he’s
32:18
32:18 pitching the solution to customers and
32:20
32:20 before that it’s even ready. And then
32:22
32:22 they use of course later on with the
32:24
32:24 final product, their creativity and they
32:27
32:27 go to Scotland to shoot the video or
32:29
32:29 whatever, but it’s much easier for their
32:31
32:31 customers to see that, you know, what is
32:33
32:33 the concept.
32:35
32:35 >> Now, and if we go back to the 1980s, you
32:37
32:37 know, it’d be a bit like me saying to
32:38
32:38 Victoria, Victoria, I liked your
32:40
32:40 document but I couldn’t help notice
32:42
32:42 you’d used a word processor.
32:43
32:43 >> Yeah.
32:44
32:44 >> And then somehow that would diminish it
32:45
32:45 in some way. I think we’re we’re sort of
32:48
32:48 I think it’s um our views on this become
32:50
32:50 a lot more nuanced in the next couple of
32:52
32:52 years, I hope. My other two very quick
32:54
32:54 questions, one was um I don’t think
32:56
32:56 you’re supposed to ask the chief
32:57
32:57 executive of Vodafone business this, but
32:59
32:59 um
33:00
33:00 how do you disconnect
33:03
33:03 personally to look after yourself?
33:07
33:07 >> I go for an evening run at the Regent’s
33:10
33:10 Park. I’m not even listening to music.
33:12
33:12 It’s my way of meditating.
33:15
33:15 >> Love that tip. I’m exactly the same, no
33:17
33:17 music,
33:19
33:19 running. Um okay, that’s a that’s a top
33:21
33:21 tip. Thank you. Um the other one was
33:24
33:24 more about this leaving your lane motto
33:27
33:27 which we come back to, which is you left
33:29
33:29 SAP. So technically there I suppose
33:31
33:31 you’re leaving what’s essentially a
33:32
33:32 software business into one that’s much
33:34
33:34 more about telecommunications
33:36
33:36 infrastructure,
33:37
33:37 connectivity.
33:38
33:38 Um
33:39
33:39 one school of thought says, I’m going to
33:41
33:41 listen and learn,
33:43
33:43 and then I’m going to share what I
33:45
33:45 think, you know, but my first few
33:47
33:47 chapters are all going to be about
33:48
33:48 ingesting. Um the other school of
33:50
33:50 thought says, my fresh eyes, my fresh
33:53
33:53 perspective is my strength.
33:55
33:55 >> Mhm.
33:56
33:56 >> So almost as soon as I hit the ground,
33:58
33:58 I’m going to start making observations,
33:59
33:59 maybe even changes. And I’m trying to
34:01
34:01 reflect or help ask you to reflect on
34:04
34:04 how you navigated what are very powerful
34:07
34:07 opening chapters, those first 100 days.
34:09
34:09 >> It’s a for me it was a combination.
34:13
34:13 Of course um
34:15
34:15 why maybe one of the reasons why I was
34:17
34:17 hired because I didn’t come from the
34:19
34:19 telecommunication industry. And in fact,
34:21
34:21 Vodafone business, you know, as as as we
34:23
34:23 discussed,
34:24
34:24 um already almost 30% of our business is
34:28
34:28 not coming from the traditional
34:29
34:29 connectivity solutions, but from the
34:31
34:31 digital services. So from that
34:33
34:33 perspective, it’s closer to um software
34:35
34:35 industry.
34:37
34:37 But,
34:38
34:38 you need to
34:41
34:41 have this outside-in view if you want to
34:43
34:43 change everything. And you know, our
34:46
34:46 group CEO,
34:47
34:47 she has a motto that Vodafone must
34:49
34:49 change.
34:50
34:50 And it’s our responsibility to challenge
34:53
34:53 some of our processes and way of working
34:55
34:55 and even some of
34:57
34:57 you know, our um
34:60
34:60 I would say that very established
35:02
35:02 business processes and you know, and
35:05
35:05 maybe when you are an outsider, you see
35:08
35:08 that hey,
35:09
35:09 why shouldn’t we change this? And I
35:11
35:11 don’t really understand why we are doing
35:12
35:12 this and we could be much more customer
35:15
35:15 centric organization by actually
35:17
35:17 investing more in in in certain new
35:19
35:19 capabilities of whatever.
35:22
35:22 But at the very same time, you need to
35:25
35:25 be patient enough to collect
35:27
35:27 information.
35:29
35:29 You discuss with uh with uh not only
35:32
35:32 with your internal people, but with the
35:35
35:35 vendors, with the customers. More you
35:38
35:38 discuss with the customers, you also get
35:40
35:40 a lot of
35:41
35:41 feedback, relevant feedback
35:44
35:44 from them.
35:46
35:46 And then finally, when you have gathered
35:48
35:48 all this information,
35:49
35:49 you need to validate.
35:51
35:51 And then
35:53
35:53 after the validation phase, you start
35:55
35:55 draw drawing the conclusions. And then
35:57
35:57 you do the scenario planning, that
35:59
35:59 scenario A, B, and C and pros and cons.
36:02
36:02 So, you combine this
36:05
36:05 you know, knowledge, but then
36:07
36:07 if I
36:09
36:09 uh
36:10
36:10 actually draw the conclusions after 3
36:12
36:12 months and then start changing
36:14
36:14 everything, I’m pretty sure that so that
36:17
36:17 I would have made so many mistakes at at
36:19
36:19 that very same time. So, you need to be
36:21
36:21 also patient. And then you need to
36:23
36:23 understand that sometimes you want to
36:24
36:24 change something immediately, but then
36:26
36:26 there are some barriers. So, there are
36:28
36:28 certain things that you need to consider
36:30
36:30 without breaking something that is
36:32
36:32 working perfectly already.
36:34
36:34 >> Yeah, thank you. Really helpful.
36:36
36:36 I’d like
36:36
36:36 >> And finally, we are working in in people
36:38
36:38 business.
36:40
36:40 So, how do you drive change?
36:42
36:42 So, you may want to change something,
36:44
36:44 but then you need to bring people with
36:46
36:46 you. And this process takes a little bit
36:48
36:48 time.
36:49
36:49 >> I’d like to know what makes you
36:50
36:50 optimistic, Marika.
36:52
36:52 >> Yeah.
36:55
36:55 First of all, it’s a mindset. Either you
36:57
36:57 see challenges or problems, or you see
36:59
36:59 opportunities. I very often see a lot of
37:02
37:02 opportunities, and I want to say that I
37:04
37:04 have a very positive outlook on life.
37:07
37:07 This is one.
37:08
37:08 But then it’s people.
37:12
37:12 I’m very optimistic when I’m visiting
37:13
37:13 customers, and I have noticed that that
37:15
37:15 together with our vendors and partners,
37:17
37:17 we have been able to
37:19
37:19 help them to unlock
37:21
37:21 the potential of technology.
37:23
37:23 You know, I have
37:25
37:25 seen that governments and public
37:28
37:28 institutions
37:31
37:31 improving their processes to help
37:33
37:33 citizens’ lives.
37:35
37:35 I I’m very optimistic when I work with
37:38
37:38 different cultures, and I see that we
37:40
37:40 have been able to accelerate our
37:42
37:42 knowledge sharing practices.
37:45
37:45 There was a great idea that came from
37:47
37:47 Egypt, and suddenly we actually were
37:49
37:49 able to replicate it in the in Europe
37:51
37:51 and in other African countries. So,
37:54
37:54 suddenly I’m optimistic that there is so
37:56
37:56 much power
37:58
37:58 now by by working with with all of our
38:02
38:02 people, whether those are customers,
38:05
38:05 whether our employees, our our partners,
38:08
38:08 but now also combine it
38:11
38:11 with with with with AI.
38:14
38:14 And I feel that there is such a great
38:16
38:16 power by actually
38:20
38:20 combining human beings with the latest
38:22
38:22 technological innovations. And who knows
38:27
38:27 what are the new innovations and
38:28
38:28 capabilities that we may have available
38:30
38:30 in 10 years time? I’m pretty sure that
38:32
38:32 we are not talking about AI. We might be
38:34
38:34 talking about XYZ.
38:36
38:36 >> Right. You’ve reminded me I am once did
38:39
38:39 Victoria and we called an innovation
38:41
38:41 safari with heads of innovation at
38:43
38:43 well-known charities. And we started our
38:45
38:45 day’s journey at London Business School.
38:47
38:47 >> Mhm.
38:48
38:48 >> And we sat around the table with our
38:49
38:49 morning coffee and we picked over
38:51
38:51 business case study
38:52
38:52 >> Mhm.
38:53
38:53 >> uh of turning around
38:56
38:56 a particular market. And it was a
38:57
38:57 Vodafone case study.
38:58
38:58 >> Wow.
38:59
38:59 >> And I think it might have been from
38:60
38:60 Egypt actually. [laughter]
39:01
39:01 >> Really?
39:01
39:01 >> Come to think of it. But what it
39:03
39:03 inspired me to remember was just that
39:05
39:05 ability to spot clues across different
39:07
39:07 territories, across different industries
39:09
39:09 because actually the way you describe
39:11
39:11 your business isn’t so much, you know,
39:13
39:13 presenting a customer with a solution as
39:15
39:15 the fact that the customer informed the
39:16
39:16 solution in the first place
39:18
39:18 >> Mhm.
39:18
39:18 >> because you have that dialogue.
39:20
39:20 >> Yes.
39:20
39:20 >> And actually you probably bring them
39:21
39:21 together with each other as well.
39:23
39:23 >> Exactly.
39:24
39:24 >> And and and to to me that feels like a
39:26
39:26 very powerful way to think about the
39:28
39:28 future.
39:29
39:29 >> Mhm.
39:29
39:29 >> Just to say what are we seeing, what are
39:30
39:30 we learning? And that’s why you don’t
39:31
39:31 get that many global business leaders in
39:34
39:34 your position actually who have that
39:35
39:35 helicopter view.
39:37
39:37 >> I hope that I can use it as an asset.
39:40
39:40 And this is of course my responsibility
39:42
39:42 to use it as a
39:43
39:43 as an asset. And I keep on telling that
39:45
39:45 actually our biggest asset is the
39:47
39:47 customer base.
39:49
39:49 You can learn so much from the
39:51
39:51 customers, but also when you
39:53
39:53 know
39:54
39:54 what are the requirements of your
39:56
39:56 customers
39:57
39:57 >> Mhm.
39:57
39:57 >> and
39:58
39:58 as I told you earlier, I feel that
40:01
40:01 Vodafone business exists because of our
40:04
40:04 customers and it’s our responsibility to
40:07
40:07 serve them not only today, but also in
40:10
40:10 the future and keep off keep on
40:12
40:12 developing our capabilities, solutions
40:16
40:16 based on the best interest of our
40:18
40:18 customers.
40:19
40:19 >> And what I loved about what you said
40:20
40:20 earlier is that you’re not an ivory
40:22
40:22 tower leader. You said you go out and
40:23
40:23 see customers.
40:24
40:24 >> Oh, of course.
40:25
40:25 >> Yeah. Which is wonderful to hear because
40:27
40:27 then you really do understand the
40:29
40:29 experience they’re receiving and you’re
40:31
40:31 hearing first hand about issues or So So
40:34
40:34 you really get to the nub of what the
40:36
40:36 business is about and what you’re
40:37
40:37 delivering for your customers, the whole
40:39
40:39 customer experience.
40:41
40:41 >> Yes.
40:42
40:42 >> You have got me You have got me
40:44
40:44 wondering now basically about the future
40:47
40:47 of the Internet of Things. I wonder what
40:48
40:48 else is going to be joining what is an
40:51
40:51 increasingly large web. I’ve I’ve heard
40:54
40:54 registered the comment about robots. I
40:56
40:56 hadn’t even thought about the fact that
40:58
40:58 the our cars are already part of that.
41:01
41:01 >> and they have been actually connected
41:03
41:03 for for for years.
41:05
41:05 >> Retail?
41:08
41:08 Like stores. So I know Internet of
41:10
41:10 Things big in stores with things like
41:12
41:12 lighting and spotlighting different
41:14
41:14 displays. I remember reading about this.
41:16
41:16 I imagine you’re doing big warehouses
41:19
41:19 and things as well.
41:20
41:20 >> Yeah, yeah, and they are fully
41:21
41:21 automated, fully fully fully connected
41:23
41:23 to um um and of course uh
41:27
41:27 around AI, there are a lot of new
41:29
41:29 capabilities and innovation. So I I see
41:33
41:33 great opportunities. The whole digital
41:37
41:37 uh secured infrastructure is becoming
41:40
41:40 more important.
41:42
41:42 Um also
41:45
41:45 um
41:46
41:46 sovereignty. By the way, we are talking
41:48
41:48 about the innovations, but how to ensure
41:51
41:51 that you have a sovereignty
41:53
41:53 is one of the key topics that we are
41:55
41:55 discussing with our customers at the
41:56
41:56 moment.
41:57
41:57 >> Sovereignty? We talked about that and I
41:58
41:58 lost my passport, didn’t we? Digital
42:00
42:00 sovereignty was a huge topic.
42:02
42:02 >> Hugely relevant for the UK. Vodafone
42:05
42:05 obviously now merged with Three in the
42:06
42:06 UK, the biggest network in the UK
42:08
42:08 investing what, 10 billion plus
42:10
42:10 >> 11 billion 11 billion pounds So,
42:13
42:13 >> over the 10 years, over the next 10
42:15
42:15 years.
42:16
42:16 Nationwide network. Of course, combined
42:18
42:18 with the satellite connections as well.
42:20
42:20 >> Where do you see as the big areas of
42:22
42:22 growth over the next sort of 10 to 20
42:23
42:23 years for the business?
42:25
42:25 >> For the business.
42:28
42:28 Of course,
42:30
42:30 digital services our digital services
42:32
42:32 are growing with double-digit So, this
42:35
42:35 is one.
42:37
42:37 AI-driven capabilities.
42:40
42:40 As I said, as I mentioned,
42:42
42:42 still some of those are in the early
42:45
42:45 stages, but I believe that there will be
42:48
42:48 new many many new innovations and
42:50
42:50 solutions that will, of course, support
42:53
42:53 our growth, but more importantly, are
42:56
42:56 bringing the necessary customer value
42:58
42:58 and business value. AI infrastructure um
43:00
43:00 is
43:02
43:02 an an important um
43:04
43:04 growth area of us as as well.
43:08
43:08 Fantastic.
43:09
43:09 >> I think it’s fascinating spirit to be um
43:12
43:12 thinking about that, which is just that
43:15
43:15 thought that it’s very easy to think of
43:18
43:18 some multi-billion
43:20
43:20 global company almost resting on its
43:22
43:22 laurels and saying, “Well, we’ve built a
43:24
43:24 very successful business over 40 years,
43:26
43:26 and if we carry on doing what we’re
43:27
43:27 doing, we’ll be all right.” And yet,
43:29
43:29 what you’re giving us clues about is
43:31
43:31 that right from the top you’ve got this
43:33
43:33 message, “We have to change.”
43:35
43:35 >> Yeah.
43:36
43:36 And as I said, as mentioned, we are a
43:38
43:38 telco company.
43:40
43:40 And the foundation is the connectivity,
43:43
43:43 but how do you combine
43:45
43:45 reliable, low-latency connectivity with
43:48
43:48 other solutions including
43:50
43:50 you know,
43:51
43:51 cybersecurity.
43:53
43:53 What is on the top of every CIO’s
43:56
43:56 mind at the moment? It’s cybersecurity,
43:59
43:59 AI,
44:00
44:00 and sovereignty. Those are the key
44:02
44:02 topics.
44:03
44:03 Combine them with the connectivity, and
44:05
44:05 the connectivity is a kind of foundation
44:08
44:08 that you need to have and you need to
44:10
44:10 rely on in order to
44:12
44:12 run your organization and company.
44:15
44:15 >> But but also, can I just say Victoria,
44:17
44:17 it’s given us some clues as well because
44:20
44:20 in the big picture it’s about a better
44:22
44:22 network nation, a better network globe.
44:25
44:25 It’s also about a better networked
44:26
44:26 organization because if you think of how
44:28
44:28 you’re using AI, you’re using it with
44:30
44:30 your own network of agents to mind the
44:32
44:32 organization, to educate yourself, to
44:34
44:34 connect with colleagues. It’s a really
44:35
44:35 interesting microcosm of that.
44:37
44:37 >> to start orchestrating all these
44:39
44:39 different AI agents across your
44:41
44:41 organization, but um also throughout
44:44
44:44 your own value chain.
44:45
44:45 >> So, I’d like to know, is there anything
44:47
44:47 that you needed to unlearn in your
44:49
44:49 leadership journey?
44:52
44:52 >> What I have um
44:55
44:55 um
44:56
44:56 had to unlearn was as a leader
44:59
44:59 was to um think that the leader must
45:04
45:04 have all the answers.
45:07
45:07 Uh very often uh
45:10
45:10 how you get promoted you were the best
45:14
45:14 sales person or expert and then you get
45:17
45:17 promoted and um maybe 10 or 20 years ago
45:20
45:20 still I I I felt that uh
45:24
45:24 uh
45:25
45:25 you were a good leader when you knew all
45:27
45:27 the answers, but now the pace of change
45:30
45:30 is so fast, so none of us can be the
45:34
45:34 expert on everything. So, this is um
45:37
45:37 one.
45:38
45:38 Secondly, what I learned was that um you
45:42
45:42 you need to as as a learner as a leader,
45:45
45:45 of course, you need to give clarity. But
45:46
45:46 then you need to start asking the right
45:48
45:48 questions. It’s more about asking the
45:51
45:51 right questions instead of being the
45:53
45:53 smartest person in the room.
45:57
45:57 >> So, we always finish at tomorrow
45:59
45:59 recording with the same question, which
46:01
46:01 is a memo to the future. So, Marika, I’d
46:03
46:03 love to know what your memo to the
46:05
46:05 future would be about authentic
46:07
46:07 leadership, AI, leading in uncertainty.
46:11
46:11 >> So, as we discussed, AI will be changing
46:13
46:13 many, many things, but something that
46:16
46:16 remains unchanged is the leadership
46:19
46:19 requirements. It’s really to give people
46:22
46:22 clarity.
46:24
46:24 They must be heard.
46:26
46:26 They must be trusted. There must be
46:28
46:28 hope. And then finally, as as as a
46:31
46:31 leader, you need to also give a
46:33
46:33 directions. So, this is first of all
46:36
46:36 very
46:37
46:37 important. And then there will be always
46:39
46:39 uncertainty. Always uncertainty. So,
46:42
46:42 it’s on how you create the environment
46:43
46:43 where people can learn.
46:45
46:45 And
46:46
46:46 you help them to move forward.
46:50
46:50 And also cope
46:52
46:52 with these situations where there is a
46:55
46:55 lot of uncertainty.
46:56
46:56 They are being supported as as as
46:58
46:58 mentioned. And then finally, I would
47:00
47:00 like to
47:01
47:01 maybe
47:03
47:03 finish
47:05
47:05 off by actually reminding what what one
47:09
47:09 one of the
47:10
47:10 legendary
47:12
47:12 basketball players once said. I I lived
47:14
47:14 the 3 years in the US and I started to
47:16
47:16 follow basketball. It was Michael Jordan
47:19
47:19 who had a great saying.
47:21
47:21 He once said that talent
47:24
47:24 wins
47:25
47:25 games, but it’s
47:29
47:29 intelligence and teamwork that win
47:32
47:32 championships. And I think it was very
47:35
47:35 nicely said. Yes, talent and you start
47:39
47:39 combining both digital work
47:42
47:42 force and your human talent.
47:45
47:45 But then finally,
47:47
47:47 on how you create strong teams
47:50
47:50 and lead this with the right
47:54
47:54 intelligence and authenticity. That is
47:58
47:58 the great foundation for our future.
48:01
48:01 >> Marika Orme, it’s been a pleasure to
48:02
48:02 have you on tomorrow. Thank you so much.
48:04
48:04 You are a really truly inspiring leader.
48:07
48:07 >> Thank you for having me. Pleasure.
48:11
48:11 >> [snorts]
48:11
48:11 >> Well, Victoria, thank you. Marika, um
48:13
48:13 Victoria, as suspected, I thoroughly
48:15
48:15 enjoyed that. Um where to begin? Um
48:19
48:19 amazing to talk about how you make a
48:21
48:21 team feel comfortable with embracing
48:23
48:23 mistakes.
48:24
48:24 Uh somebody who known who makes about 50
48:26
48:26 mistakes uh a day, that felt reassuring.
48:29
48:29 Um also to hear that within the context
48:30
48:30 of a massive global company.
48:32
48:32 >> Absolutely. Marika is clearly a woman
48:34
48:34 that listens very closely to her
48:36
48:36 customers and to her team, which is
48:39
48:39 obviously why she’s made it to such a
48:41
48:41 senior position and and was in senior
48:44
48:44 positions before. Very inspiring to hear
48:46
48:46 it.
48:47
48:47 Um and I’ve learned a lot from today’s
48:49
48:49 interview.
48:50
48:50 >> So, on that, Victoria, just very
48:51
48:51 briefly, I know you’re someone who
48:54
48:54 does their homework and does lots of
48:56
48:56 research. What surprised you that you
48:58
48:58 heard today?
48:58
48:58 >> Yeah, thank you for asking that. I was
49:00
49:00 really surprised by how many pies
49:04
49:04 Vodafone have their fingers in.
49:05
49:05 Actually, I had no idea about the
49:07
49:07 infrastructure and the the cables under
49:10
49:10 the ocean and the satellites. And of
49:12
49:12 course, this is a theme that’s been
49:13
49:13 running through a lot of the interviews
49:14
49:14 we’re doing together. We’re looking we
49:16
49:16 we actually have a guest on about
49:17
49:17 satellite technology coming on very
49:19
49:19 soon. Um I had no idea that that
49:22
49:22 Vodafone is connecting all of those
49:24
49:24 different elements. Plus, of course,
49:25
49:25 this forward-thinking technology, you
49:27
49:27 know, that we’re all dealing with every
49:28
49:28 day. are sitting right at the center of
49:31
49:31 all of those initiatives.
49:32
49:32 >> Yeah, I agree. And and from a company
49:34
49:34 that’s, you know, my first ever mobile
49:36
49:36 phone was a Vodafone phone. Hearing
49:37
49:37 about that, first text message, which
49:40
49:40 said Merry Christmas, by the way, in
49:41
49:41 case you were wondering.
49:42
49:42 >> How big was your first phone, Ollie?
49:44
49:44 >> It wasn’t as brickish as you’re hinting
49:46
49:46 at, Victoria. [laughter] I’m not that
49:47
49:47 >> Well, you definitely not that old. But I
49:49
49:49 bet it was bigger, right?
49:50
49:50 >> Vodafone 40 years old, about my age,
49:52
49:52 something like that. Right. Well, uh
49:55
49:55 thank
49:55
49:55 >> you Victoria for bringing you another
49:56
49:56 brilliant guest to tomorrow.
49:58
49:58 And thank you for tuning in.
50:01
50:01 So much to take from today’s
50:02
50:02 conversation. We hope you’ve enjoyed it.
50:04
50:04 If I was to pick one thing, it would be
50:07
50:07 around that word uncertainty because
50:09
50:09 very often a future forum and on
50:10
50:10 tomorrow when we think about
50:12
50:12 uncertainty, we think of something
50:13
50:13 that’s out there. And today’s
50:16
50:16 conversation has taught me that very
50:17
50:17 often uncertainty lives in here. In our
50:20
50:20 minds. And it’s not something to hide.
50:23
50:23 It might not be something to be afraid
50:25
50:25 of. In fact, by embracing it and sharing
50:27
50:27 that we feel it with our team, we can
50:29
50:29 unlock the greatest thing of all which
50:31
50:31 is better conversations and better
50:33
50:33 teamwork. So, with that in mind, thank
50:35
50:35 you. Please share this conversation with
50:37
50:37 anyone you think would find it
50:38
50:38 interesting. Please subscribe to
50:40
50:40 tomorrow.
50:41
50:41 To my co-host Victoria Usher, thank you.
50:43
50:43 And to our brilliant guest today, Marika
50:45
50:45 O’Rahilly, head of Vodafone Business, a
50:48
50:48 huge thank you. To you. Please stay
50:51
50:51 tuned. This is tomorrow. It’s the Future
50:53
50:53 Forum podcast. And until next time,
50:55
50:55 goodbye.
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