00:00 Lanes are destructive for a heart
00:03
00:03 >> and David Bowie would not be interested
00:05
00:05 in lanes. Got to get out of your lane in
00:07
00:07 order to understand your lane, let alone
00:10
00:10 have a much more exciting life. I think
00:11
00:11 knowing your own story, AI
00:14
00:14 will need everyone to keep finding their
00:17
00:17 story rather than clicking into an
00:20
00:20 algorithm which gives you a story. I
00:22
00:22 probably spend as much time in the
00:24
00:24 digital art rooms at Brit as I do in the
00:26
00:26 theater rooms because I just have no
00:28
00:28 idea how they do it. If you’re a dancer,
00:30
00:30 you know that your friend who’s going to
00:33
00:33 like you matters. Yeah. And so
00:34
00:34 therefore, you have an absolute respect
00:37
00:37 for the ecosystem and that you’re not
00:39
00:39 alone.
00:40
00:40 >> And that the sound engineer matters and
00:42
00:42 that the costume designer matters. That
00:44
00:44 and that that creates a real sense of
00:46
00:46 not gratitude, but of understanding that
00:49
00:49 the world is bigger than you and thus a
00:52
00:52 better world.
00:55
00:55 Hello and welcome to Tomorrow, the
00:58
00:58 Future Forum podcast. I’m Ollie Barrett
01:00
01:00 and here at Future Forum, we are
01:03
01:03 passionate about bringing together very
01:04
01:04 different people from completely
01:06
01:06 different industries to shape what’s
01:08
01:08 next together. Our guest today is Stuart
01:12
01:12 Warden, OBBE, and he is the principal of
01:15
01:15 the Brit School, which is the leading
01:18
01:18 creative and performing arts school in
01:20
01:20 the UK. If you haven’t heard of it
01:23
01:23 already, and I suspect you have, it has
01:26
01:26 produced unbelievable talent including
01:28
01:28 Amy Winehouse, Adele, Tom Holland, Ray,
01:31
01:31 Lola Young, and many, many more besides,
01:35
01:35 and I ought to add thousands of talented
01:37
01:37 individuals throughout the creative
01:40
01:40 industries. So, what can the Brit School
01:42
01:42 teach us about talent, about young
01:44
01:44 people, about the future of education?
01:47
01:47 Our guest today is someone who believes
01:49
01:49 in a philosophy of kindness and
01:51
01:51 adventure. Stuart Warden, welcome to
01:53
01:53 Tomorrow. Oh,
01:54
01:54 >> Ollie, thanks for having me. It’s great
01:55
01:55 to be here.
01:56
01:56 >> I’ve been so looking forward to this. We
01:57
01:57 are huge fans of the Brit School at
01:59
01:59 Future Forum. We spent the most
02:00
02:00 incredible afternoon with you and your
02:03
02:03 team, I should say, recently.
02:05
02:05 >> Thanks for coming.
02:06
02:06 >> Um, thank you for everything you’ve
02:07
02:07 done. You’ve led the school since uh
02:09
02:09 2012.
02:11
02:11 >> I ask all our guests on tomorrow, give
02:14
02:14 us a glimpse of the future. Look ahead.
02:16
02:16 What do you see? What I would love to
02:18
02:18 see is every person, young person,
02:21
02:21 having access to the arts in education,
02:24
02:24 not after school, not at the weekends,
02:26
02:26 but during the school day and using the
02:29
02:29 arts to express how they feel about the
02:30
02:30 world in which they live and to make a
02:32
02:32 better world. That is a future where
02:35
02:35 young people are freer to use their
02:38
02:38 skill, to use their talent, and that it
02:41
02:41 would be accessible to all. The Brit
02:42
02:42 School is free. No one pays to go there.
02:44
02:44 It’s a state school. and the idea that
02:46
02:46 young people could access the arts in
02:48
02:48 the future from whatever background and
02:51
02:51 that it would be seen and valued as much
02:53
02:53 as maths and English and science that
02:56
02:56 would make a better world and that would
02:57
02:57 be a better future.
02:59
02:59 >> So this is amazing because what you’re
03:01
03:01 hinting at is that all too often um the
03:05
03:05 arts are put on the margins as a first
03:07
03:07 little bit of icing on the cake and
03:09
03:09 you’re talking about the flip side
03:10
03:10 putting them at the core. So what would
03:13
03:13 that do to young people but also more
03:15
03:15 broadly to our country?
03:16
03:16 >> It’s an amazing opportunity. So the STEM
03:19
03:19 education system has failed young
03:21
03:21 people. There’s more depression in young
03:23
03:23 people than ever before. There are more
03:25
03:25 young people out of work. So that hasn’t
03:27
03:27 worked and there’s no A in STEM. It’s
03:29
03:29 not the steam agenda. So what it would
03:32
03:32 do would be would be to release young
03:34
03:34 people to be able to express themselves
03:36
03:36 because through the arts you can talk
03:38
03:38 about the world in which you want to
03:39
03:39 live in and the world as you see it and
03:42
03:42 it gives you a way of understanding the
03:44
03:44 world better than probably any other
03:46
03:46 educational kind of uh grounding. We’ve
03:49
03:49 seen that again and again and again. And
03:51
03:51 if you encourage those young people to
03:53
03:53 be original thinkers, original artists,
03:55
03:55 to be themselves, then what happens
03:58
03:58 therefore is you just get a confidence
03:60
03:60 that you can achieve things from
04:01
04:01 whatever background. And that is very
04:03
04:03 special.
04:03
04:03 >> And what I should underline here, and
04:05
04:05 you’d be too modest to say at this
04:07
04:07 point, is it would be easy to see the
04:09
04:09 Brit School and say what it’s got is
04:11
04:11 just an incredible [clears throat]
04:12
04:12 ability to develop around that cultural
04:14
04:14 sort of artistic talent. except your
04:17
04:17 teacher. It is it is a well it’s
04:19
04:19 obviously not normal in the conventional
04:21
04:21 sense but it is on its own merits an
04:24
04:24 outstanding school rated by of Austin
04:26
04:26 outstanding across all categories.
04:27
04:27 >> All categories. Yes. So our English and
04:30
04:30 mass grades and science which I really
04:31
04:31 value. I think they’re amazing subjects.
04:32
04:32 They’re really important for an artist
04:34
04:34 to have an understanding of language
04:36
04:36 have an understanding of the scientific
04:39
04:39 world. Um but that offstead came along
04:41
04:41 and gave us five star review in every
04:45
04:45 quarter. uh the English grades, the math
04:46
04:46 grades, the science grades, all above
04:47
04:47 the national average also from young
04:50
04:50 children who come in without seeing
04:52
04:52 themselves as mathematicians
04:54
04:54 um because they haven’t been valued. And
04:56
04:56 once you value a child, everything is
04:59
04:59 possible. So I’m really proud. My mom is
05:01
05:01 delighted that I’m a serious
05:03
05:03 educationalist as well as someone who
05:05
05:05 works in the arts. I see it as the same
05:07
05:07 thing.
05:08
05:08 >> Well, they are all linked and I’m going
05:09
05:09 to bring the business back into that
05:10
05:10 because you weren’t always in in
05:12
05:12 education. So, we’re going to come on to
05:14
05:14 that, but there’s so much I want to
05:15
05:15 unpack because we were lucky enough at
05:18
05:18 Future Forum to go and see the Brit
05:19
05:19 School. I want you to help us just
05:21
05:21 understand what it’s really about. So,
05:23
05:23 there’s one one and a half thousand
05:26
05:26 young people there, young artists, all
05:29
05:29 who have a skill, a talent, but more
05:32
05:32 importantly, they have potential.
05:34
05:34 >> And that potential you and we create a
05:36
05:36 kind of adventurous playground where by
05:39
05:39 that I mean you can have adventures uh
05:41
05:41 and fail. You might try and make a movie
05:44
05:44 that doesn’t quite work. You might try
05:45
05:45 and create a new piece of dance that
05:48
05:48 doesn’t quite do what you wanted it to
05:49
05:49 do, but it’s an adventure and it’s a
05:51
05:51 playground because you can cut your knee
05:53
05:53 metaphorically and get up again because
05:55
05:55 you’ll be safe. And I believe in safe
05:57
05:57 spaces, but I really believe in brave
05:60
05:60 spaces because if you can create a place
06:01
06:01 where young people can be brave, it’s
06:04
06:04 all possible. So, what’s it really like?
06:06
06:06 It’s a South London school with young
06:08
06:08 children mainly from London. uh we have
06:11
06:11 40% of our young people are
06:12
06:12 neurodeiverse. We have between about 45%
06:16
06:16 of our young people are from the global
06:17
06:17 majority uh and a large significant
06:20
06:20 percentage on low income uh uh and
06:23
06:23 people premium and free school meals.
06:25
06:25 >> So this is a this is a comprehensive
06:26
06:26 school
06:27
06:27 >> uh with young people who kind of have
06:29
06:29 found the Brit school as a shelter
06:31
06:31 >> because they couldn’t afford it in their
06:35
06:35 outside of school. They weren’t wien
06:47
06:47 >> and that belief with some technique and
06:50
06:50 with some training. So what is it really
06:53
06:53 like? It’s like a school that is like a
06:56
06:56 carnival.
06:58
06:58 [laughter] It’s like a it’s like a
06:59
06:59 playground.
07:01
07:01 >> It’s it’s adventurous. It’s fun.
07:03
07:03 Seriously hardworking. It opens at 7 in
07:06
07:06 the morning for some of them if they
07:08
07:08 want to come in and use the studios for
07:09
07:09 free.
07:10
07:10 >> Yeah.
07:10
07:10 >> And we try to keep open till about 7
07:12
07:12 o’clock at night because they won’t be
07:13
07:13 able to afford that stuff at home. So,
07:15
07:15 we’ve got to give them those those rooms
07:18
07:18 so that they can create art.
07:19
07:19 >> Yeah. So, they’ve got access to um
07:22
07:22 really great equipment that in part
07:25
07:25 thanks to some great partnerships. So,
07:26
07:26 so say a little bit more about who you
07:28
07:28 partner with just to bring that to
07:30
07:30 >> Sure. So, um, we’re a state school, but
07:32
07:32 the state hasn’t seen it, um, in their
07:37
07:37 thinking to to fully support the school
07:40
07:40 with what it needs to give young people
07:42
07:42 all the resources. So, we have
07:44
07:44 partnerships with industry. So, in our
07:45
07:45 fashion course is supported by Burberry.
07:47
07:47 [snorts] Our production course is
07:48
07:48 supported by Andrew Lloyd Weber. Um, we
07:50
07:50 have support from British Airways just
07:52
07:52 because they’re kind of an adventurous
07:54
07:54 British brand. Dr. Martin support our
07:56
07:56 music course which as well as our
07:59
07:59 fashion courses cuz they really want you
08:01
08:01 know Dr. Martin is an amazing rebellious
08:03
08:03 but brilliant brand and we’re kind of a
08:06
08:06 rebellious school
08:07
08:07 >> that’s also you know good at what we do.
08:10
08:10 So those brands give students aspiration
08:13
08:13 as well. So we have students who have
08:16
08:16 become say the Warner Music student of
08:18
08:18 the year and imagine being called that
08:21
08:21 when you’re 16.
08:23
08:23 It it makes you it makes things possible
08:25
08:25 having industry support.
08:26
08:26 >> So So on this well first of all I’m not
08:28
08:28 even going to wait till the end to say
08:30
08:30 if any business is even contemplating
08:33
08:33 leaning in and supporting the Brit we
08:35
08:35 would 100% encourage it and we’ve seen
08:37
08:37 it we’ve seen it firsthand coming to
08:40
08:40 fruition. So, so firstly to say that
08:42
08:42 secondly though you’ve intrigued me now
08:43
08:43 because that word rebellion is very
08:45
08:45 interesting will come uh will will
08:47
08:47 resonate with a lot of our viewers but
08:50
08:50 also this idea of individuality so I’m
08:52
08:52 I’m choosing to use that word of course
08:54
08:54 >> how do you foster
08:57
08:57 >> uh a school which um develops
08:59
08:59 individuality which sews those seeds of
09:02
09:02 rebellion without presiding over
09:04
09:04 complete chaos
09:04
09:04 >> it’s not chaos I think I think it’s um
09:07
09:07 you have to say to a young person find
09:10
09:10 out who you are.
09:11
09:11 >> And in order to do that, you have to
09:12
09:12 give them chances to do that. And so we
09:15
09:15 believe in original voice. So and we
09:17
09:17 also believe in a social voice. So young
09:20
09:20 people are not even encouraged. They
09:22
09:22 have to create their own artwork about
09:25
09:25 things that they believe in. So recently
09:27
09:27 um one of our uh our dance students
09:29
09:29 create a a dance response to
09:31
09:31 adolescence.
09:32
09:32 >> That was crucial. the Steven Graeme.
09:34
09:34 >> Yeah. Because as young dancers, they
09:36
09:36 were like that’s that’s us and we will
09:38
09:38 use our dance to kind of explore that. I
09:41
09:41 will see filmmakers making documentaries
09:43
09:43 about political issues that they believe
09:45
09:45 in. Songwriters. We have a great
09:47
09:47 songwriting show supported by Dr.
09:49
09:49 Martins called Give a Damn, which is the
09:51
09:51 [clears throat] students uh have to
09:53
09:53 write response to society and what they
09:56
09:56 would like to change about it.
09:57
09:57 >> So imagine if you’re 16 and say, “Well,
09:59
09:59 what what do you think’s wrong with the
09:60
09:60 world?” Well, I think uh the way women
10:02
10:02 are treated, I think the way my race is
10:05
10:05 treated, I think the way that my
10:06
10:06 religion is treated needs to be
10:08
10:08 discussed. I will write a song about it.
10:10
10:10 And you can see that in the the alumni
10:12
10:12 that they they know who they are.
10:15
10:15 >> Yeah. And and and it’s not just within
10:17
10:17 the confines of the school because a
10:19
10:19 reason that some of the students weren’t
10:21
10:21 in the building when we visited was
10:23
10:23 because they were out in the community.
10:25
10:25 Give us give us an example of the sorts
10:26
10:26 of things that that work. Well, we think
10:29
10:29 that you should share your art with
10:30
10:30 others, particularly those who need a
10:34
10:34 voice. So, say for instance, we work in
10:36
10:36 palative care. So, teenagers will go to
10:39
10:39 a hospice with people in the last 2,
10:40
10:40 three months of their lives and say,
10:42
10:42 “Okay, you’re dying. Tell me about your
10:44
10:44 life and I will turn it into a dance or
10:46
10:46 I will write a song with you about your
10:48
10:48 life or I will write a play with you.”
10:50
10:50 And if you’re an artist and you’re
10:52
10:52 sharing something with someone who is
10:54
10:54 who needs to be valued at the end of
10:56
10:56 their life or if you’re working um with
10:58
10:58 a people referral unit with young people
11:00
11:00 who’ve been excluded from normal
11:02
11:02 education and say let’s work together.
11:03
11:03 Yeah.
11:04
11:04 >> Shall we write should we write some
11:05
11:05 should we should we do some make a movie
11:07
11:07 together then things can change. So what
11:09
11:09 have you learned then Stuart about
11:12
11:12 because there are situations where that
11:14
11:14 will click and there will be an
11:15
11:15 instantly response you know
11:18
11:18 >> thank you for coming we’re pleased
11:19
11:19 you’re here I bet you’ve seen situations
11:21
11:21 where it hasn’t been
11:22
11:22 >> so often
11:23
11:23 >> so I’m trying to work out reverse abort
11:26
11:26 >> no you well we we’ll we’ll plow on
11:29
11:29 probably but like so for instance an
11:30
11:30 example is you know the rapper Loyal
11:32
11:32 Caro was Britzkill
11:33
11:33 >> I remember taking he wanted to go and
11:35
11:35 work on a hospice project cuz he was
11:36
11:36 dealing with grief himself and his mom
11:38
11:38 said it would good for him. So Ben, who
11:40
11:40 uh is his real name, so Ben came on this
11:43
11:43 project and he sat down with this person
11:44
11:44 with motor neurin disease, a guy called
11:46
11:46 Martin. And Martin was like, I don’t I
11:48
11:48 don’t want to do this. I don’t want to
11:49
11:49 do this project.
11:50
11:50 >> And Martin was dying. And he didn’t want
11:52
11:52 to do it because he was angry. He was
11:53
11:53 angry that he was dying.
11:54
11:54 >> And he was angry that his life had
11:56
11:56 changed. And he was angry that his
11:57
11:57 performing arts students had turned up
11:59
11:59 and gone, “Hey, should we write some
11:60
11:60 songs together?” But Ben was like,
12:01
12:01 “Okay, well, let’s shall we try?”
12:03
12:03 >> And we we got there slowly over time.
12:06
12:06 Uh, and Martin and Ben wrote a beautiful
12:08
12:08 spoken word piece together which we
12:10
12:10 recorded in our studio.
12:11
12:11 >> And you know, Martin died not long
12:14
12:14 after, but that was a powerful moment
12:17
12:17 for us to kind of work through. And it
12:19
12:19 it won’t always work. You know,
12:21
12:21 >> it probably says something about want to
12:23
12:23 intrude on what was a very personal
12:25
12:25 moment. It probably says something about
12:26
12:26 Ben’s ability to connect and and
12:28
12:28 reconnect.
12:29
12:29 >> Yeah. I mean, he has he has this Brit
12:30
12:30 school quality. Well, it’s not is it a
12:32
12:32 Brit school quality? No, it’s a human
12:33
12:33 quality called empathy. M
12:35
12:35 >> and we try to encourage empathy um
12:38
12:38 because I think if you’re a young person
12:40
12:40 who can empathize with others because of
12:43
12:43 your background, your health, your what
12:46
12:46 you’re living with or you know if you
12:48
12:48 have empathy with a primary school in
12:51
12:51 our local neighborhood that has no money
12:53
12:53 >> like we’ve recently just done the
12:54
12:54 production uh of two local primary
12:58
12:58 schools end of year shows. Yeah. They
12:59
12:59 had a full Brit school experience of
13:01
13:01 makeup, costume, set, lighting. And
13:03
13:03 these were kids like in Cudden in Cellur
13:05
13:05 who had very little. And if you can
13:07
13:07 empathize with someone who doesn’t have
13:09
13:09 a lot and use your skill to give them
13:11
13:11 something, that is meaningful.
13:14
13:14 >> It makes total sense when you now think
13:16
13:16 about the relationship, and I hope I’m
13:18
13:18 not overextrapulating here, but some of
13:20
13:20 your alum have with their fans.
13:22
13:22 >> Yeah, for sure.
13:23
13:23 >> They might not call them fans, I know,
13:24
13:24 for sure.
13:25
13:25 >> But it is such a deep connection. It’s
13:27
13:27 it is because I think that they care,
13:29
13:29 you know, they there’s a care to their
13:32
13:32 relationships. I I can remember working
13:35
13:35 a little bit with Lola when she was a
13:38
13:38 14year-old,
13:39
13:39 >> and she was so keen to be a songwriter.
13:43
13:43 >> She studied songwriting so much, but she
13:45
13:45 was also dealing with stuff in her head
13:47
13:47 and her life.
13:48
13:48 >> And when she channeled those two things
13:50
13:50 together
13:51
13:51 >> and thought, “Oh, I’m going to write
13:52
13:52 about that. I’m going to write about
13:53
13:53 what’s inside my head.” And that’s okay,
13:56
13:56 right? And of course it’s okay. It’s
13:58
13:58 what you should do as a person. You
13:59
13:59 should express yourself. And then that
14:01
14:01 the fans get that. They’re like, “She’s
14:03
14:03 singing about me.” So So let’s explore
14:05
14:05 that a bit more because you’re dealing
14:06
14:06 with um young minds. Uh well, to put it
14:12
14:12 mildly, an extraordinary time in their
14:14
14:14 development.
14:14
14:14 >> Yeah. Yeah.
14:15
14:15 >> So let’s reflect a little bit about
14:17
14:17 that. About teenage minds, teenage
14:18
14:18 brains, what you’ve learned, what you
14:20
14:20 notice. Oh, I think it’s like the four
14:22
14:22 the teenage brain is the most thrilling
14:25
14:25 thing because um after that it’s kind of
14:28
14:28 all over. [laughter]
14:29
14:29 No, it kind of is because you you can
14:32
14:32 cuz in that time of adolescence you can
14:34
14:34 work out who you are and you’ve got to
14:36
14:36 and you can experiment and you take
14:38
14:38 risks and you can fall off cliffs and
14:40
14:40 fly. All of that is very possible. And
14:43
14:43 what I’ve worked out is that the
14:45
14:45 >> that things are changeable in that time
14:48
14:48 that it’s not set. It’s beautifully
14:50
14:50 fluid if you encourage it and say like
14:53
14:53 it’s not so like today I just went
14:55
14:55 online and one of our kids has just
14:56
14:56 taken over running a theater in um the
14:59
14:59 East End and has is going out into the
15:01
15:01 community to ask them about that. I’ve
15:03
15:03 just uh re um just was following a
15:06
15:06 student who’s just done some fashion
15:08
15:08 designs based on the Harlem
15:11
15:11 movement of the 70s
15:13
15:13 >> and kind of what I’m what they she
15:16
15:16 didn’t know about the Harlem movement of
15:17
15:17 the 70s before she started at school but
15:19
15:19 she got stuck into that and now you know
15:21
15:21 N Rogers has seen her work and she’s a
15:24
15:24 17-year-old fashion designer who’s got
15:26
15:26 into like the Harlem movement. Nile
15:28
15:28 who’s a friend of the schools cuz he
15:29
15:29 loves what we’ve done for young people
15:31
15:31 from all sorts of backgrounds. He was
15:33
15:33 like, “This guy’s work’s cool.” And that
15:35
15:35 elevates people. So, so what you’re
15:37
15:37 touching on there is that idea that in
15:40
15:40 theory at least our work, our creativity
15:43
15:43 can be closer than ever
15:44
15:44 >> to whether it’s audiences, champions,
15:47
15:47 potentially sponsors. And of course, as
15:50
15:50 you know, that comes with the flip side,
15:52
15:52 which is this possible intensity of
15:54
15:54 spotlight, which is something which will
15:56
15:56 have been on your mind a lot. So, what
15:57
15:57 have you learned there about how you how
15:59
15:59 you look after um any young mind, not
16:02
16:02 just a creat highly creative mind?
16:04
16:04 >> I think young people need
16:06
16:06 to know that people are there for them
16:09
16:09 >> and they need to know they’re going to
16:10
16:10 be listened to and they know that
16:12
16:12 they’re going to be cared for. So, we
16:15
16:15 have invested significantly at school in
16:17
16:17 a counseling service. We’ve invested
16:19
16:19 heavily in tutoring. Uh we work with
16:23
16:23 everyone’s invited on consent and sexual
16:26
16:26 harassment.
16:27
16:27 >> Uh we have worked with um calm the
16:31
16:31 campaign against
16:33
16:33 >> um for many years because
16:36
16:36 >> young people are so vulnerable to
16:40
16:40 >> everything could be amazing and
16:41
16:41 everything could not be so
16:43
16:43 >> and if they don’t have people to talk to
16:45
16:45 lean on mainly their friends that’s the
16:48
16:48 that’s their number one a game. So, but
16:51
16:51 we so for instance at Brit school
16:52
16:52 there’s more time spent on tutoring a
16:54
16:54 child than in the average school.
16:56
16:56 >> There is more time given to large-scale
16:59
16:59 assemblies. So, we can sit and talk
17:01
17:01 about issues whether that’s uh
17:02
17:02 neurodyiversity or disability or uh the
17:07
17:07 LGBT movement or the black history uh
17:10
17:10 matters group at Brit. We you need to
17:13
17:13 find that space where young people think
17:15
17:15 they can just pause for a bit and go,
17:17
17:17 can I just check in with you?
17:19
17:19 >> Right. and and that that’s very vital
17:22
17:22 not just because of the industries
17:24
17:24 they’re going into which are quite
17:25
17:25 volatile and quite um demanding but
17:28
17:28 actually as humans you’ve got to have
17:31
17:31 humans there for you and and you’ve you
17:34
17:34 got to belong you’ve touched on an
17:36
17:36 unbelievable resource because whilst
17:39
17:39 I’ve highlighted amazing equipment
17:41
17:41 mentors business the most incredible
17:43
17:43 resource is each other
17:44
17:44 >> yeah yeah that is that and they that’s a
17:47
17:47 beautiful thing I mean there’s some
17:48
17:48 really well-known examples of Briscol’s
17:50
17:50 you have each other. So Adele’s
17:52
17:52 guitarist Ben, they met in the canteen
17:54
17:54 when they were 16 and he’s still her
17:56
17:56 guitarist.
17:57
17:57 >> When uh Kush Jumbo opened her onewoman
18:00
18:00 show off Broadway at Joe’s Pub, the um
18:04
18:04 the assistant director was Brit because
18:06
18:06 she’d met her at an event and she wanted
18:08
18:08 to a black female Brit school student to
18:11
18:11 be her assistant director. Yeah. So, so
18:12
18:12 I that that sense of
18:15
18:15 >> being part of a big big gang
18:18
18:18 >> of people who have shared values
18:20
18:20 matters.
18:21
18:21 >> So I suspect Stuart that this is way
18:23
18:23 beyond put all the ingredients together
18:26
18:26 and hope that these magical coincidences
18:28
18:28 take place. What have you learned about
18:30
18:30 how you create the conditions for
18:33
18:33 serendipity for for these for these
18:35
18:35 collisions if you like? I think you have
18:37
18:37 to you have to know what does what do
18:40
18:40 you believe in? So we sort of believe in
18:43
18:43 opportunity
18:44
18:44 >> for all. So how do you create that? So
18:47
18:47 you’ve got to make a system whereby
18:50
18:50 you’re not looking for individuals to be
18:52
18:52 successful but the team to be
18:54
18:54 successful. So the ensemble matters. The
18:57
18:57 students are often in dance pieces with
18:59
18:59 25 40 dancers.
19:01
19:01 >> The solo does happen but that’s not the
19:04
19:04 thing.
19:04
19:04 >> They’ll be in theater events with 75 on
19:07
19:07 stage at the same time. They’ll be in
19:09
19:09 bands of 40 because the individual
19:12
19:12 matters, but it doesn’t matter as much
19:14
19:14 as the gang, the ensemble, the ensemble
19:16
19:16 is all.
19:17
19:17 >> And that’s what struck me was that
19:19
19:19 breadth of backstage skills, the 3D
19:22
19:22 modeling of all the courses almost like
19:24
19:24 what you see is the tip of the iceber.
19:25
19:25 >> Oh, I love that you noticed that. I
19:27
19:27 think that the the the real heroes of
19:29
19:29 the school, the the the rock stars are
19:31
19:31 actually the backstage students on the
19:33
19:33 production course, the lighting, sound,
19:35
19:35 costume people because they do
19:36
19:36 everyone’s show. Yeah. So if you’re a
19:38
19:38 dancer, you know that your friend who’s
19:41
19:41 going to like you matters. And so
19:43
19:43 therefore, you have an absolute respect
19:45
19:45 for the ecosystem and that you’re not
19:47
19:47 alone
19:48
19:48 >> and that the sound engineer matters and
19:50
19:50 that the costume designer matters. That
19:52
19:52 and that that creates a real sense of
19:54
19:54 not gratitude but of understanding that
19:57
19:57 you the world is bigger than you and
20:01
20:01 that’s a better world.
20:02
20:02 >> But it’s a microcosm of the broader
20:04
20:04 community point, isn’t it? context.
20:07
20:07 >> Yeah.
20:07
20:07 >> And it’s understanding where we all
20:09
20:09 might have a role to play.
20:10
20:10 >> Yeah. And that we’re all threaded
20:12
20:12 together. And I think that the I’m this
20:14
20:14 afternoon I’m meeting up with a student
20:16
20:16 who wants to open a new drama school in
20:18
20:18 London. And I taught him in 1994
20:21
20:21 and he is still connected to me who is
20:24
20:24 still connected to other actors. He’s
20:25
20:25 still connected to people. and that all
20:27
20:27 that that web of um always Brit of
20:31
20:31 knowing that your second home, your
20:34
20:34 school is part of a bigger community
20:37
20:37 just makes you know that you’re never
20:38
20:38 alone.
20:39
20:39 >> I love that motto always Brit and it
20:41
20:41 will resonate with on the flip side with
20:44
20:44 anyone who hasn’t kept in touch with the
20:46
20:46 place that they went to. It highlights
20:48
20:48 something really powerful actually.
20:50
20:50 >> I Well, thank you. I think always Brit
20:51
20:51 is um means that you’re always Brit now
20:55
20:55 cuz you’ve been to the school and
20:56
20:56 therefore you’re part of this bigger
20:58
20:58 ambition for everyone to connect with
21:01
21:01 the arts of this country and beyond
21:04
21:04 which is sort of it sounds like a really
21:05
21:05 high and mighty idea but the idea is
21:07
21:07 that we are we are all part of something
21:11
21:11 that could be very powerful today. Also,
21:15
21:15 listening to you explain it, it does
21:17
21:17 feel a bit like the antidote because
21:18
21:18 what a lot of people I am generalizing
21:20
21:20 wildly here. What a lot of young people
21:22
21:22 lack is that sense of agency, that sense
21:24
21:24 that they have a role to play in the
21:25
21:25 future of their own life. I can’t Yeah.
21:27
21:27 It saddens me cuz everyone every child’s
21:30
21:30 an artist, you know, that genu that
21:32
21:32 isn’t made up. That’s absolutely true.
21:33
21:33 Or they’ve all got something to say. The
21:36
21:36 problem we currently have is we sort of
21:38
21:38 seem to treat children as a as a mass,
21:41
21:41 you know. Um, and they’re not. They have
21:43
21:43 individual views. They have individual
21:45
21:45 opinions. They have individual wishes
21:47
21:47 and wants and they have individual ways
21:49
21:49 of learning. And that we have a system
21:52
21:52 at the moment which doesn’t um recognize
21:54
21:54 the individuality. It’s why vocational
21:56
21:56 education is so exciting. It’s why Andy
21:59
21:59 Berner’s recent pronouncements are very
22:01
22:01 exciting. And if he’s if he really if
22:03
22:03 they really mean it and that vocational
22:04
22:04 education is going to be really that
22:06
22:06 that could be so thrilling for people’s
22:08
22:08 skills and their individuality to be
22:10
22:10 recognized as well as academia which of
22:12
22:12 course is a brilliant thing.
22:13
22:13 >> Yeah.
22:13
22:13 >> But I it’s about um it’s about making
22:16
22:16 the individual feel that they are they
22:19
22:19 have worth and you have you can only
22:22
22:22 really do that by saying what do you
22:23
22:23 believe in?
22:24
22:24 >> Yeah it is an amazing first question
22:26
22:26 isn’t it? Um
22:28
22:28 >> so let’s change gear a little bit. I’ve
22:29
22:29 got a sort of um what I loosely title a
22:31
22:31 quick fire around. It doesn’t always
22:32
22:32 turn out to be like that. But it does
22:34
22:34 involve I try to be quick.
22:35
22:35 >> No, it does involve No, no, no. It’s cuz
22:36
22:36 I get distracted off rabbit holes.
22:39
22:39 That’s on me. Uh it does involve you
22:41
22:41 picking a number between 1 and 10.
22:43
22:43 >> Happy.
22:44
22:44 >> What number would you pick?
22:47
22:47 >> Uh right now.
22:48
22:48 >> Yeah,
22:49
22:49 >> I’m eight.
22:50
22:50 >> No, as in [laughter]
22:52
22:52 >> to sum up your mood. That’s good. No,
22:55
22:55 no, I’m joking. I want you to pick a
22:56
22:56 number question between 1 and 10. You’re
22:58
22:58 an eight. I’m happy with that.
22:59
22:59 >> Well, ask number eight.
23:00
23:00 >> Okay, good.
23:02
23:02 >> Ah. What’s the biggest mistake adults
23:05
23:05 make with ambitious young people?
23:10
23:10 >> Probably believing that they have the
23:12
23:12 answer when they don’t. The the young
23:15
23:15 person has the answer.
23:17
23:17 Yeah. If a child ever says to a child, I
23:20
23:20 think you should go down this route,
23:21
23:21 they should stop talking because the
23:23
23:23 child will find that out and they may
23:26
23:26 well know the answer. M well two
23:28
23:28 thoughts. Number one, to what extent are
23:31
23:31 you
23:32
23:32 into advice? I think advice is helpful,
23:36
23:36 but I I think um what would be better
23:40
23:40 than advice is to encourage the autonomy
23:42
23:42 of a child and the confidence for them
23:44
23:44 to to hear their own advice, to hear
23:46
23:46 their own thought, their own mind.
23:48
23:48 >> Interesting. To what extent are you in
23:50
23:50 the business of shaping young people? Um
23:53
23:53 I think
23:55
23:55 in our we are the school kind of says
23:57
23:57 that it’s inclusive. So it says you can
23:59
23:59 be who you want to be here. If you are a
24:02
24:02 racist or a homophobe or a misogynist,
24:05
24:05 you’ll be unhappy here. M
24:07
24:07 >> and we have students who join our school
24:09
24:09 who may well be homophobic or racist or
24:11
24:11 misogynist and we would like to shape
24:14
24:14 them away from that because we think
24:16
24:16 bullying is the great destroyer of
24:21
24:21 success and creativity amongst young
24:23
24:23 people
24:24
24:24 >> and so the removal of fear
24:27
24:27 um helps shape people but I don’t think
24:31
24:31 like I occasionally I might say to a
24:33
24:33 student oh do you know what do you know
24:34
24:34 the work of James Terrell you should
24:36
24:36 look at that work. He’s an amazing
24:37
24:37 lighting designer.
24:39
24:39 >> I’d like to light artist, but I I don’t
24:41
24:41 think it’s our job to we don’t we’re not
24:44
24:44 a factory. We’re not going you need to
24:46
24:46 be like the next Olivia Dean. That’s not
24:49
24:49 interesting.
24:50
24:50 >> Right. Well, it’s also interesting that
24:51
24:51 al alongside the word adventure, you use
24:53
24:53 the word kindness. And one thing that I
24:55
24:55 like about that is it’s very easy to
24:57
24:57 spot its opposite.
24:58
24:58 >> Sure. For sure. Yeah. I I don’t ever say
25:01
25:01 to students, “Please don’t be boring.”
25:03
25:03 But I think I do. [laughter]
25:05
25:05 Well, I I um you know, when you’re
25:08
25:08 young, you you’ve got every you you’ve
25:11
25:11 can claim your adventure.
25:13
25:13 >> Yeah.
25:13
25:13 >> Yeah. Love that.
25:14
25:14 >> Um pick another number between 1 and 10.
25:18
25:18 [snorts]
25:18
25:18 >> Four.
25:20
25:20 >> Confidence or curiosity? Curiosity every
25:24
25:24 time will lead to confidence because the
25:26
25:26 more you like I
25:30
25:30 I um I saw this lovely exhibition by
25:33
25:33 David Bry this week and it just kind of
25:35
25:35 plugged me into some of the things that
25:36
25:36 I love about art and he says, “Oh, I’ve
25:39
25:39 always been enthusiastic and curious.”
25:42
25:42 And I think enthusiasm is it needs to be
25:45
25:45 encouraged like the love of curiosity,
25:47
25:47 the love of like if you’re a dancer, go
25:49
25:49 and watch a movie. If you’re a games
25:52
25:52 designer, work out how to dance. There’s
25:55
25:55 a beautiful project between our games
25:56
25:56 students and our dancers where they’ve
25:58
25:58 create avatars of dancers.
25:59
25:59 >> Yes.
25:60
25:60 >> And so the curiosity to understand other
26:02
26:02 art forms. If you just read this
26:05
26:05 newspaper, then read something else. Um
26:08
26:08 >> if you I think curiosity is leads to
26:11
26:11 confidence and
26:14
26:14 that is essential. Yeah, 100%. And I’m
26:17
26:17 going to pick you up on that. Read
26:19
26:19 something else in a moment. But after
26:21
26:21 you’ve picked a third number, a six.
26:24
26:24 >> Oh. Um, so this is tech and AI related.
26:27
26:27 What creative skill becomes more
26:30
26:30 valuable because of AI? Um, I think
26:34
26:34 knowing your own story. So storytelling
26:38
26:38 is your right as an artist and as a
26:41
26:41 young person to to tell your story or to
26:43
26:43 tell stories. That’s what we do. You
26:44
26:44 know, we’re storytellers. And I think AI
26:48
26:48 will need everyone to keep finding their
26:51
26:51 story rather than clicking into an
26:53
26:53 algorithm which gives you a story if
26:56
26:56 that makes sense.
26:57
26:57 >> So we want we want to find a way that um
27:00
27:00 you can keep telling new stories. Um, I
27:05
27:05 saw an uh amazing uh film recently made
27:09
27:09 by a student and I couldn’t for the life
27:12
27:12 of me work out who they were influenced
27:13
27:13 by and I just thought that was
27:16
27:16 thrilling. [laughter]
27:17
27:17 >> Yeah, I thought that was thrilling. I
27:18
27:18 thought you haven’t you literally cannot
27:20
27:20 have put into you haven’t AIed how to
27:24
27:24 make a crazy weird wonderful euroastic
27:28
27:28 artouse film. You couldn’t have done
27:30
27:30 that because you have made your own
27:31
27:31 movie.
27:32
27:32 >> It’s such a high compliment. I thought
27:33
27:33 it recently about a friend who sadly
27:35
27:35 passed away and you you thought did she
27:37
27:37 remind you of anyone and the answer was
27:38
27:38 no
27:38
27:38 >> and I and I said to this guy look I he’s
27:41
27:41 15 this kid and he’s making movies that
27:44
27:44 aren’t they’re not mainstream at all but
27:47
27:47 they’re also not aped by Tarovski or
27:51
27:51 Eisenstein or Bunwell they are he is
27:54
27:54 literally plowing his own field at 15
27:57
27:57 and so I think AI will really to be
27:60
27:60 delighted if we can keep being our own
28:04
28:04 thinkers. Yeah.
28:06
28:06 >> Right. 100%. So, so on that um and again
28:09
28:09 it it isn’t quickfire but um I realize
28:12
28:12 these are big questions. To what extent
28:14
28:14 are the students that are walking into
28:16
28:16 the Brit School today the same as the
28:18
28:18 students you were seeing maybe 10 years
28:20
28:20 ago?
28:21
28:21 >> Oh, they’re still pretty scrappy, you
28:23
28:23 know, and they’re still um they’re still
28:26
28:26 open. um they are they have more buttons
28:30
28:30 that they push because they didn’t used
28:32
28:32 to have buttons.
28:33
28:33 >> So I want to make sure the buttons they
28:36
28:36 know how to use them
28:37
28:37 >> and that they are positive uses of
28:40
28:40 technology because there wasn’t tech
28:42
28:42 back in the early ‘9s in the way that we
28:44
28:44 have it now.
28:45
28:45 >> Um I think also the difference is that
28:47
28:47 the school is really really successful
28:49
28:49 now
28:50
28:50 >> and yet they haven’t done anything. So
28:53
28:53 you think, “Oh god, I’ve got a place at
28:54
28:54 this well-known school.” And I’m like,
28:56
28:56 “Well, you haven’t done anything.” So
28:58
28:58 don’t think that that’s enough.
28:60
28:60 >> Oh, that’s interesting. Okay.
29:01
29:01 >> Yeah. I want them. So hunger
29:03
29:03 >> Yeah.
29:03
29:03 >> is the key.
29:04
29:04 >> Yeah.
29:05
29:05 >> And I’m And I’ve got to like I meet
29:07
29:07 students who have made million
29:10
29:10 albums or that they’ve been in movies
29:13
29:13 that have been seen by millions of
29:14
29:14 people and I say, “Oh, you’ve done so
29:16
29:16 well.” And they go, “Yeah, I’m getting
29:17
29:17 there.”
29:18
29:18 >> And that I’m getting there needs to be
29:20
29:20 their motto. They’re never there. You
29:22
29:22 know, they haven’t made it. There’s no
29:25
29:25 such thing as making it. That’s not a
29:27
29:27 helpful thing to think.
29:28
29:28 >> So, so how what have you learned about
29:30
29:30 this thought then of I’m not telling you
29:33
29:33 this is the main theme of Future Forum
29:34
29:34 podcast, but it ought to be.
29:36
29:36 >> Yeah.
29:36
29:36 >> What have you learned about how you
29:37
29:37 reconcile fierce and wild ambition with
29:40
29:40 happiness?
29:41
29:41 >> Um, I think that there I think if you’re
29:44
29:44 if you I think fierce is good, by the
29:46
29:46 way. I like that. Um,
29:48
29:48 uh, I don’t I don’t know. I think
29:54
29:54 that I’ve just been listening to Man,
29:55
29:55 Woman, Chainsaw’s new album and it’s
29:58
29:58 released on Friday. It’s amazing. It’s
29:59
29:59 the most exciting alternative rock
30:01
30:01 record of this year by some distance.
30:04
30:04 >> And I remember those kids when they were
30:06
30:06 14 kind of trying and trying and they
30:09
30:09 were fiercely ambitious
30:11
30:11 >> and I don’t know if they’ll ever be h
30:12
30:12 happiness is just overrated.
30:14
30:14 >> It’s just a thing that I mean why I’m
30:17
30:17 I’m quite happy to be sad, you know?
30:19
30:19 [laughter] I don’t I think happiness is
30:21
30:21 just a 21st century. Um on a personal
30:24
30:24 level, I think it’s a it’s a myth to
30:27
30:27 chase it.
30:28
30:28 >> Um I think satisfied
30:31
30:31 probably never,
30:33
30:33 >> you know. I think that there I think
30:34
30:34 I’ve been How do you I mean I’m still
30:36
30:36 ambitious. I know our exam results will
30:37
30:37 come out this week and they’ll be
30:38
30:38 amazing and I’ll still want them to be
30:40
30:40 improved
30:42
30:42 >> because I think let’s keep going people.
30:44
30:44 Let’s keep
30:44
30:44 >> It’s fascinating. It’s fascinating.
30:46
30:46 >> Let’s be restless is what I think. Russ
30:48
30:48 is is another brilliant quality, isn’t
30:50
30:50 it? The idea that there’s more out
30:52
30:52 there.
30:52
30:52 >> Yeah. You haven’t you’re not done.
30:54
30:54 >> Yeah.
30:54
30:54 >> Never.
30:55
30:55 >> Speaking of not done, um we have a
30:57
30:57 phrase, leave your lane of you about
30:60
30:60 exploring new worlds, exploring new
31:01
31:01 areas.
31:02
31:02 >> And um I love that example of if you
31:04
31:04 read this newspaper, read another one
31:05
31:05 and almost deliberately self-sparking
31:07
31:07 your own
31:08
31:08 >> curiosity because Stuart Warden wasn’t
31:11
31:11 always a school principal. No, no, no.
31:14
31:14 I’ve I’ve been a I’ve made false teeth.
31:17
31:17 I’ve been a bouncer in a nightclub.
31:19
31:19 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
31:20
31:20 >> I’ve been a bouncer in a nightclub and
31:21
31:21 I’ve I’ve worked race courses. But I um
31:24
31:24 I kind of I have an interest in all the
31:26
31:26 arts. I’m a theater practitioner by
31:29
31:29 >> you. That’s what I do. I make plays and
31:31
31:31 I write plays. Um
31:33
31:33 >> and recently I just my first oneman play
31:36
31:36 that I wrote and performed for the first
31:38
31:38 time about 35 years recently. And um I
31:41
31:41 did some singing in it and I can’t sing
31:43
31:43 but I thought I’ll just give that a go
31:45
31:45 you know so I think so lanes
31:48
31:48 what is a lane man lanes are destructive
31:51
31:51 for art
31:52
31:52 >> and David Bowie would not be interested
31:54
31:54 in lanes of course why you know what
31:57
31:57 what do they do so I think stepping
31:59
31:59 outside of it is really good like if I I
32:01
32:01 spend more time I probably spend as much
32:04
32:04 time in the digital art rooms at Brit as
32:06
32:06 I do in the theater rooms because I just
32:08
32:08 have no idea how how they do it.
32:10
32:10 >> I also I will never be able to dance.
32:13
32:13 >> So I I visit the dance studios at least
32:15
32:15 two or three times a week and I love
32:17
32:17 ballet because it’s impossibly brilliant
32:19
32:19 and beautiful and beyond beyond beyond
32:22
32:22 beyond anything
32:23
32:23 >> that I could ever create myself. So you
32:26
32:26 have to ask yourself the questions. So
32:29
32:29 lanes I think are I mean I understand
32:31
32:31 them. I you know I’d like I wouldn’t you
32:34
32:34 know I don’t I I love like some of my
32:36
32:36 best friends at the Brit School are the
32:37
32:37 site staff
32:38
32:38 >> but I could not do their job. I could
32:40
32:40 not fix a door. Um and I don’t think I
32:45
32:45 should go out of my lane and try and fix
32:47
32:47 doors. But I do think we should all know
32:50
32:50 how a door is fixed if that makes sense.
32:52
32:52 Metaphorically, I think the students
32:53
32:53 should understand like if you come to
32:55
32:55 the Brit as a dancer,
32:58
32:58 >> let’s say if you come to Brit School as
32:59
32:59 an artist and you’re into fine art, I
33:01
33:01 really hope that you fall in love with
33:02
33:02 experimental photography or textiles or
33:05
33:05 print
33:06
33:06 >> because you could just carry on being a
33:09
33:09 fine artist, but wouldn’t it be much
33:10
33:10 more fun to keep going and out and out
33:13
33:13 and out and and outside? So, if you’re
33:14
33:14 if you’re an actor here
33:16
33:16 >> at Brit, you have to write plays. That
33:19
33:19 is mind-blowing
33:21
33:21 because you’ve got to get out of your
33:22
33:22 lane in order to understand your lane,
33:24
33:24 let alone have a much more exciting
33:26
33:26 life. And the kids these days, they’re
33:28
33:28 not interested in being boxed.
33:30
33:30 >> Right. Well, that’s what’s so
33:31
33:31 fascinating, isn’t it? Because And I’m I
33:33
33:33 am not going to avoid the very obvious
33:35
33:35 line that is Brit is in the business of
33:37
33:37 creating doors, isn’t it? Of course it
33:38
33:38 is.
33:39
33:39 >> For sure.
33:39
33:39 >> And yeah,
33:40
33:40 >> what then? I’m thinking about your
33:42
33:42 singing now in your one man show.
33:43
33:43 >> It was awful by the way.
33:44
33:44 >> What should we Well, maybe. Did you
33:47
33:47 enjoy it?
33:47
33:47 >> Uh, sort of. Yeah. [laughter]
33:49
33:49 Yeah. I kind of I couldn’t quite believe
33:51
33:51 it was happening because I’d been
33:52
33:52 bullied at school by my music teacher
33:54
33:54 who said I couldn’t sing when I was
33:55
33:55 about eight. So I I’d never sung in
33:57
33:57 public until 3 weeks ago.
33:59
33:59 >> What’s your take on that then? What’s
34:01
34:01 your take on what our relationship
34:02
34:02 should be with things that we don’t
34:04
34:04 enjoy and don’t think we’re good at?
34:06
34:06 >> Uh well some like I’m not like I I do
34:09
34:09 think there are things that you’re not
34:10
34:10 going to be capable of. It’s not a D’s
34:12
34:12 education’s role to say you can do
34:13
34:13 everything because it’s not it’s
34:15
34:15 probably not.
34:16
34:16 >> You got to know what your thing thing
34:17
34:17 is, I guess, you know. So,
34:20
34:20 >> so if Ray’s thing is writing massive
34:23
34:23 ballads
34:25
34:25 that speak to women and speak to the
34:27
34:27 world, then that is probably what she
34:29
34:29 will do more than write a heavy rock
34:32
34:32 tune, you know. Um, but I know that
34:35
34:35 she’s got ambitions to act, you know,
34:38
34:38 and that I bet that comes off, you know.
34:40
34:40 So,
34:40
34:40 >> so sorry I I don’t have answer to your
34:42
34:42 question, but I do think it’s um
34:44
34:44 >> I think it’s incumbent upon education to
34:46
34:46 say
34:48
34:48 >> do not do don’t say don’t say you can’t
34:51
34:51 first time round. Do try stuff.
34:53
34:53 >> Well, I think you have answered
34:54
34:54 >> the same for leaders, the same for
34:56
34:56 teachers, the same for us all really.
34:59
34:59 Yeah, I think I think you have answered
35:00
35:00 this across the conversation which is to
35:02
35:02 say you create the conditions for people
35:04
35:04 to try things. Yeah.
35:05
35:05 >> And experiment and it’s not for you as a
35:07
35:07 principal or any member of faculty to
35:09
35:09 then say you should do this or you
35:10
35:10 should not do that.
35:11
35:11 >> No, definitely. I think um I uh there’s
35:15
35:15 a guy who’s working in contemporary art
35:17
35:17 at the moment who’s come from Britain
35:19
35:19 and he is he loves science
35:22
35:22 >> and his those artworks are science and
35:24
35:24 experimental and I think he is just
35:28
35:28 going down that way. Um and I Yeah,
35:33
35:33 teachers get in the way often. Education
35:36
35:36 gets in the way.
35:37
35:37 >> Yeah.
35:37
35:37 >> And it needs not to um
35:40
35:40 >> it needs to release.
35:41
35:41 >> Yeah. and and and creating those
35:42
35:42 conditions. So, so let’s think a little
35:44
35:44 bit about the future that um these
35:46
35:46 students are going out in. Yeah. And and
35:48
35:48 the changes you’re seeing because you
35:50
35:50 know in one um
35:52
35:52 >> explanation I suppose of the role is to
35:54
35:54 prepare them. You know the numbers are
35:56
35:56 extraordinary. um give us a sense of how
35:59
35:59 many Brit students will find themselves
36:01
36:01 in employment
36:02
36:02 >> this well we have our our neat record
36:05
36:05 not in education uh or training um or
36:09
36:09 employment is is at less than.5%
36:13
36:13 >> extraordinary
36:14
36:14 >> so and over 70% of them are still in the
36:16
36:16 creative industries and for art
36:18
36:18 industries 10 years after leaving the
36:20
36:20 school so they it’s going to happen for
36:22
36:22 them
36:22
36:22 >> right
36:22
36:22 >> so so so given a that astonishing track
36:26
36:26 record and the knowledge that the world
36:28
36:28 that they’re entering is evolving
36:30
36:30 unbelievably quickly.
36:32
36:32 >> How have you had to evolve? How you’re
36:33
36:33 preparing them?
36:34
36:34 >> Oh, I think it’s I think that we
36:35
36:35 shouldn’t be preparing them for jobs
36:36
36:36 that currently exist
36:38
36:38 >> because they pro they might not do.
36:40
36:40 [laughter]
36:40
36:40 >> So, there’s this beautiful bit where
36:42
36:42 there’s a guy who’s now working for
36:44
36:44 Apple who they picked him up on work
36:48
36:48 experience. Um, he then wrote his own
36:51
36:51 job description and created his own
36:53
36:53 salary
36:55
36:55 >> and he’s 19.
36:57
36:57 And Tim Cook thinks he’s a, you know,
36:59
36:59 has this photograph with him. And I
37:01
37:01 think that boy has worked that out
37:05
37:05 himself with us, if that makes sense.
37:08
37:08 But he’s his own guy. We’re not, we
37:09
37:09 can’t own him. We don’t own any of these
37:11
37:11 kids. They
37:12
37:12 >> I think that there is definitely going
37:14
37:14 to be jobs that don’t exist.
37:15
37:15 >> I think trying to say to a young person
37:18
37:18 that they will definitely have many,
37:20
37:20 many, many different roles and do that.
37:24
37:24 So, like there’s a student I’ve been
37:26
37:26 chatting to this morning who’s going to
37:27
37:27 produce a movie with a crew of 25. The
37:31
37:31 film will be shown at Prince Charles
37:32
37:32 Cinema, but I also noticed that she does
37:34
37:34 podcasts. I know that she’s interested
37:36
37:36 in TV broadcasting. Do not narrow
37:39
37:39 yourself, right?
37:40
37:40 >> So, we have got to keep
37:43
37:43 we’ve got to have a nice digital agenda.
37:45
37:45 We’ve got to be able to give them all
37:47
37:47 the tools that be part of the digital
37:48
37:48 future. We’ve got to keep training their
37:50
37:50 empathy so that they can keep in touch
37:52
37:52 with humanity. We got to keep them
37:55
37:55 socially engaged with how they can
37:57
37:57 change the world. All those things
37:59
37:59 happening at the same time.
38:00
38:00 >> And we’ve also got to keep a careers
38:02
38:02 team that’s bigger than your average
38:04
38:04 school. Yes. Careers in schools
38:08
38:08 saddens me that like it’s one day a
38:11
38:11 week.
38:11
38:11 >> Yeah.
38:12
38:12 >> If you’re lucky, you might get 10
38:14
38:14 minutes with your careers advisor as you
38:15
38:15 leave the school. And you have careers
38:18
38:18 advisers from year 10 at Brit School the
38:19
38:19 whole way. It’s so it’s so interesting
38:21
38:21 because
38:21
38:21 >> and that’s the that’s that that is one
38:24
38:24 of the reasons we’re successful
38:25
38:25 >> and and just to reflect back Tim Cook
38:27
38:27 former CEO of Apple said when he visited
38:29
38:29 the school this is you know one of the
38:32
38:32 most if not the most extraordinary
38:33
38:33 school I’ve ever seen. I don’t think
38:34
38:34 there’s anything like it.
38:35
38:35 >> It was wonderful. Tim was Tim was great
38:37
38:37 and he he got there because a former
38:39
38:39 student of ours has launched the Apple
38:42
38:42 Watch. She was the head of the marketing
38:43
38:43 of the Apple Watch around the world
38:45
38:45 >> and I rang her and she said, “Oh, I’ll
38:47
38:47 give Tim a shout.” And then Tim came
38:50
38:50 down and then Apple became involved in
38:51
38:51 the Brits and he was like this is these
38:54
38:54 kids everything every the ecosystem is
38:56
38:56 here. That’s what he admired that he was
38:58
38:58 like I’ve just seen a filmmaker and I
39:01
39:01 filming a dancer who’s been made up by a
39:04
39:04 production student uh in a theater
39:07
39:07 that’s being run by your so that the
39:09
39:09 ecosystem was present. Tim loved that.
39:11
39:11 Yeah. But it’s also back to I mean to my
39:14
39:14 mind you’re answering so many of the how
39:17
39:17 questions of the big questions we ask
39:19
39:19 ourselves about developing resilience,
39:22
39:22 >> adaptability, empathy. It is the example
39:24
39:24 of how. Um speaking of new um leaders um
39:30
39:30 >> what can the rest of our education
39:31
39:31 system learn from Brit? What would you
39:33
39:33 like to see a bit more of? I’d like
39:36
39:36 I um it’s a shame that [clears throat]
39:40
39:40 in the past the school play was one of
39:43
39:43 the first things to go
39:44
39:44 >> in the budget
39:46
39:46 and that is the things we remember from
39:49
39:49 our childhood are being in the school
39:51
39:51 play or going to the museum or having an
39:54
39:54 artist come in and having a crazy
39:56
39:56 afternoon where you create some artwork.
39:58
39:58 And art will usually be the thing that
40:00
40:00 you remember the most or creating art or
40:02
40:02 sport. Yeah.
40:03
40:03 >> And both sport and and art are the
40:06
40:06 things which we celebrate in this
40:07
40:07 country more than anything. Our rugby
40:09
40:09 team does well, our football team does
40:11
40:11 well,
40:11
40:11 >> our pop singers do well, our actors do
40:13
40:13 well, our authors do well and yet we
40:19
40:19 don’t fund them sufficiently
40:21
40:21 >> is hard. You know that I that that we’ve
40:24
40:24 got friends like British Airways and
40:26
40:26 Burberry and Dr. Martins, uh, and
40:28
40:28 Android Weber, that is amazing. You
40:30
40:30 know, we love them for their help. But
40:33
40:33 if that was more state focused,
40:36
40:36 I think you would create a more
40:40
40:40 a kind of better world where young
40:42
40:42 people could express themselves, like
40:43
40:43 what I said at the beginning. But I also
40:45
40:45 I think
40:48
40:48 I think what art does is release
40:50
40:50 something in the teenager that is that
40:53
40:53 is all there. and some schools where
40:57
40:57 arts because they’re not counted in
40:59
40:59 league tables in the same way that
41:01
41:01 English, maths and science are because
41:04
41:04 everyone’s hungry to
41:07
41:07 >> you know we’ve proven through offsteads
41:09
41:09 you know outstanding that you the arts
41:11
41:11 can be the answer you can do both you
41:14
41:14 know but guess what you could be a you
41:16
41:16 know we’ve got brilliant history
41:17
41:17 students at our school who also can
41:19
41:19 dance beautifully
41:20
41:20 >> well there’s a there’s a bridge there
41:21
41:21 around sport as well just around that
41:23
41:23 physicality
41:25
41:25 movement around, you know, waking up our
41:27
41:27 waking up our minds. There was I forget
41:29
41:29 who said a beautiful quote around not
41:30
41:30 asking what the world needs but instead
41:32
41:32 asking what makes you come alive because
41:33
41:33 what the world needs is people have come
41:35
41:35 alive.
41:36
41:36 >> For sure. I think if you see like we got
41:38
41:38 an amazing attendance record at our
41:40
41:40 school and you think oh that’s bound to
41:41
41:41 be but these kids are traveling 50 miles
41:43
41:43 to get to the school
41:45
41:45 >> across London and being on time and
41:48
41:48 being there. I think our attendance
41:51
41:51 record at some stages is sometimes up to
41:53
41:53 5 8% higher than the national average.
41:56
41:56 Yeah.
41:57
41:57 >> And they’re traveling miles to get there
41:59
41:59 because something is getting them there
42:01
42:01 where they want to be alive and they
42:03
42:03 want to contribute. They want to be part
42:05
42:05 of something. And imagine this. Imagine
42:07
42:07 going to school and being happy. Even
42:09
42:09 though I said happiness is overrated,
42:11
42:11 but imagine going to school and wanting
42:13
42:13 to.
42:14
42:14 >> That’s unusual.
42:15
42:15 >> Yeah. I mean, and and wouldn’t that be a
42:17
42:17 goal for a country?
42:18
42:18 >> And we’ve got that.
42:18
42:18 >> Yeah. and we’ve got that. So, why would
42:20
42:20 you not want more of that?
42:21
42:21 >> Yeah. And and by the way, I’m sure
42:23
42:23 anyone listening knew that was a very
42:24
42:24 personal and thoughtful response to
42:26
42:26 that. You know, it’s clear you’re
42:28
42:28 creating the conditions for people to
42:29
42:29 thrive.
42:30
42:30 >> I heard a student the other day say,
42:31
42:31 “The school saved me.”
42:33
42:33 >> Mhm.
42:34
42:34 >> And that goes deep because you think
42:37
42:37 from what?
42:38
42:38 >> Mhm.
42:38
42:38 >> But I think that the idea that the that
42:40
42:40 a school could be a a springboard for
42:44
42:44 everything,
42:46
42:46 you know, it’s amazing.
42:47
42:47 >> Yeah, it is. extraordinary
42:49
42:49 >> and I think we’ve worked that out and
42:52
42:52 other schools, you know, we’ve helped a
42:54
42:54 number of schools across the country
42:55
42:55 with their curriculums. We’re creating
42:58
42:58 uh schools in Birmingham and Wakefield
43:00
43:00 and Liverpool that have all been
43:02
43:02 influenced by what’s happened in this
43:03
43:03 school and they’re flying those schools.
43:05
43:05 They’re not Brit school, you know,
43:06
43:06 they’re they’re flying because they
43:08
43:08 really believe that the an arts training
43:09
43:09 can really help a child
43:11
43:11 >> in whatever they end up doing. Like one
43:13
43:13 of my favorite Brit school students is a
43:15
43:15 successful window cleaner. like really
43:17
43:17 stupidly successful when looking at like
43:19
43:19 a like a like a like a very wealthy man.
43:22
43:22 But he says, “Oh,” I said, “We didn’t do
43:24
43:24 that, did we?” And he went, “Yeah, you
43:25
43:25 did. You gave me confidence.” Yeah.
43:27
43:27 >> You gave me creativity. You gave me a
43:29
43:29 drive.
43:30
43:30 >> Uh I can communicate.
43:32
43:32 >> So yeah, my window cleaning business is
43:34
43:34 your business, you know, and I’m like,
43:36
43:36 “Happy days.”
43:36
43:36 >> I love that. It’s it’s an extraordinary
43:39
43:39 variety. And uh we really appreciate
43:41
43:41 your time today. My final question to
43:43
43:43 all of our guests is is actually to gaze
43:46
43:46 um well actually to to to to send a memo
43:50
43:50 to the future is how I would say it. So
43:52
43:52 it could be to 10 years time could be to
43:54
43:54 a future version of yourself to a future
43:56
43:56 leader and look
43:57
43:57 >> uh down the camera and tell us what
43:60
43:60 would you say to them? I would say
44:03
44:03 try to hear your own voice and what you
44:06
44:06 believe in and try not to um try not to
44:11
44:11 respond to others. Try not to please
44:14
44:14 others with your art, but create the art
44:16
44:16 that you in your heart want to make.
44:21
44:21 That’s what I would say.
44:22
44:22 >> It’s a incredibly powerful message.
44:25
44:25 Stuart, thank you so much for joining us
44:27
44:27 on Tomorrow. I’ve absolutely loved it.
44:29
44:29 >> Oh, great. Well, thanks so much. just
44:30
44:30 made me have to think really hard. So,
44:32
44:32 so [laughter] thanks for doing that.
44:34
44:34 >> No, good. It’s good. It’s good. Yeah. I
44:36
44:36 hope I’ve done all right.
44:36
44:36 >> You’ve done more than right. It’s just
44:38
44:38 It’s just extraordinary. I think Brit’s
44:39
44:39 incredibly lucky to have you, honestly.
44:41
44:41 >> Oh, thanks, man.
44:41
44:41 >> It’s amazing. Thank you.
44:43
44:43 >> It’s really really exciting. Thank you.
44:45
44:45 So,
44:46
44:46 >> that is our guest for today, Stuart
44:49
44:49 Warden, principal of the Brit School.
44:52
44:52 And hopefully you get as clear a flavor
44:54
44:54 as I do about some of the qualities that
44:56
44:56 make it absolutely worldclass. really
44:58
44:58 hope that you’ve enjoyed the episode. If
44:60
44:60 there’s someone you think should hear
45:01
45:01 it, uh then please do take a moment to
45:03
45:03 share it and to subscribe to this
45:05
45:05 channel or wherever you’re listening to
45:07
45:07 it. Also, uh a new feature from our team
45:10
45:10 at Future Forum. If you want to keep in
45:11
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45:14
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45:16
45:16 dots, if you’d subscribe to our
45:18
45:18 newsletter, uh you can see that in the
45:20
45:20 notes uh under the show. But for now, uh
45:22
45:22 thank you to Stuart. Uh thank you to all
45:24
45:24 our guests across this series. And uh
45:26
45:26 most of all, thank you to you. It’s
45:28
45:28 Future Forums podcast tomorrow. I’m
45:30
45:30 Ollie Barrett and until next time,
45:32
45:32 goodbye.
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