00:00 AI is acting, I think, as a
00:02
00:02 comprehensive thought partner. It’s
00:03
00:03 definitely not replacing humans in the
00:05
00:05 process. This is a pivotable moment for
00:07
00:07 us. I would be certainly saying to my
00:09
00:09 daughter, you need to continue to read
00:10
00:10 and read widely and be able to
00:12
00:12 critically assess information. AI is
00:14
00:14 like a really powerful personal
00:16
00:16 assistant for you, but it’s actually not
00:20
00:20 the only thing that’s doing the work. I
00:22
00:22 expect that human oversight. There’s an
00:24
00:24 opportunity for both the creators, the
00:26
00:26 small businesses, the large businesses
00:27
00:27 to monetize. Uh, and that’s definitely
00:30
00:30 what the teams on the ground can help
00:31
00:31 them to do. Life is all about humanto
00:33
00:33 human connection.
00:39
00:39 >> Hello and welcome to Tomorrow the Future
00:42
00:42 Forum podcast. I’m Ollie Barrett and
00:45
00:45 here at Future Forum, we are completely
00:49
00:49 obsessed by this idea of bringing
00:51
00:51 together completely different people
00:53
00:53 from very different industries to shape
00:55
00:55 the future together. So here’s a
00:58
00:58 thought. We have more tools than ever at
01:02
01:02 our disposal to communicate with anyone
01:05
01:05 and that change is increasing on a daily
01:08
01:08 basis. So if we can talk to anyone, what
01:11
01:11 does that mean for our ability to
01:13
01:13 understand each other? And what is the
01:15
01:15 incredible potential now at our
01:18
01:18 fingertips? Well, I’m very excited
01:20
01:20 because today’s guest spends their time
01:22
01:22 thinking about communication, thinking
01:24
01:24 about culture, and thinking about
01:27
01:27 marketing. She is the director of
01:29
01:29 international marketing at Meta. So, it
01:31
01:31 is a great honor to say Martina
01:33
01:33 McDonald, welcome to tomorrow.
01:35
01:35 >> Thank you, Ali. Thanks for having me.
01:36
01:36 >> Now, so many things we can explore in
01:39
01:39 this conversation, Martina. But first,
01:41
01:41 we ask all our guests on tomorrow. Give
01:43
01:43 us a glimpse into the future. What do
01:45
01:45 you see? The marketeer of the future is
01:47
01:47 shifting away from uh campaign cycles
01:49
01:49 and moving into sort of an always on uh
01:52
01:52 framework fueled by AI. Um AI is acting
01:56
01:56 I think as a comprehensive thought
01:57
01:57 partner. It’s definitely not replacing
01:59
01:59 humans in the process. Um but it really
02:02
02:02 does allow marketeteers to focus less on
02:04
02:04 tactical tasks and to focus more on how
02:07
02:07 we think about culture fluency uh and
02:10
02:10 taste. So on that let’s just start to
02:13
02:13 explore this a bit because in theory AI
02:17
02:17 can adapt our messages to any different
02:20
02:20 market to any different audience in the
02:22
02:22 world. So does that mean that actually
02:25
02:25 understanding the person that we’re
02:27
02:27 trying to communicate with at the end of
02:29
02:29 the day that understanding them is more
02:33
02:33 important than ever less important than
02:35
02:35 ever?
02:35
02:35 >> Oh definitely more important I think
02:37
02:37 than ever. Um, look, AI is definitely
02:40
02:40 collapsing the cost, uh, you know, and
02:43
02:43 the time that’s needed to do tasks, but
02:46
02:46 it’s not telling us, it’s not giving us
02:48
02:48 the insight about what people really
02:49
02:49 need. And that is the piece I think
02:51
02:51 that’s like so important to me leading
02:53
02:53 an international marketing team that we
02:55
02:55 have people at the center of that work
02:58
02:58 who are you know working at market level
03:00
03:00 who understand the culture and who are
03:02
03:02 able to provide that cultural insight
03:04
03:04 and market insight and the economics of
03:07
03:07 the environment in which we’re working
03:08
03:08 in uh to make sure that what we bring to
03:10
03:10 market is the very best possible
03:12
03:12 version. So I want to explore a bit
03:14
03:14 about how those two work together in
03:17
03:17 terms of good people on the ground
03:19
03:19 campaigns um being masterminded if you
03:22
03:22 like essentially. I suppose the thing I
03:24
03:24 just wanted to explore a bit is this
03:27
03:27 idea that if you’ve got a campaign that
03:29
03:29 can be seen all around the world is what
03:32
03:32 you’re seeing a desire that it shows up
03:35
03:35 everywhere the same uh that it’s
03:37
03:37 different everywhere. Just help us to
03:39
03:39 navigate a little bit.
03:40
03:40 >> Yeah, it’s look it’s it’s an interesting
03:42
03:42 one. I think there’s such a big
03:43
03:43 connection between globalization and
03:46
03:46 identity. H I don’t think it’s one
03:48
03:48 versus the other actually. I think they
03:50
03:50 they really must work in concert
03:52
03:52 together. So as I even as I think about
03:54
03:54 like where I’ve grown up and how I’ve
03:56
03:56 grown my career um I have grown up in
03:59
03:59 Ireland um you know a small country I
04:02
04:02 think like 60% you know our population
04:04
04:04 is about 60% of the population of
04:06
04:06 London. um you know in an
04:08
04:08 English-speaking block if you like you
04:10
04:10 know between the US and between UK with
04:12
04:12 a lot of that cultural influence um same
04:15
04:15 language but like definitely not the
04:17
04:17 same culture.
04:18
04:18 >> So I do think that you know you need
04:20
04:20 both to work together uh and that has
04:23
04:23 really shaped how I think about how we
04:26
04:26 bring I suppose the most important
04:28
04:28 elements of a culture to life. Um but at
04:31
04:31 the same time I do believe that and I’ve
04:33
04:33 worked for some you know amazing global
04:35
04:35 brands along my career. Uh the global
04:38
04:38 spine is really important that you have
04:40
04:40 because it means at a market level
04:41
04:41 you’re not relitigating the brand all
04:43
04:43 the time. You are thinking about though
04:44
04:44 how you bring that brand to life in the
04:46
04:46 way that’s relevant to the people that
04:48
04:48 you’re serving it to. So like two basic
04:50
04:50 rules for me is it going to drive value
04:53
04:53 for the customer and is it going to
04:54
04:54 drive value for the business?
04:56
04:56 >> Right. So on that um tomorrow viewers
04:59
04:59 will know what I’m going to say now
05:01
05:01 because I want an example in terms of
05:02
05:02 bringing to life something doesn’t have
05:04
05:04 to be a business example but it could be
05:06
05:06 something with that sort of global
05:08
05:08 potential for relevance but that has
05:10
05:10 been effectively evolved adapted
05:12
05:12 locally.
05:12
05:12 >> Yeah sure actually um probably the best
05:15
05:15 example that we have is our meta
05:17
05:17 marketing summit which we run around the
05:20
05:20 globe. So we sort of follow the sun.
05:21
05:21 It’s it starts you know uh starts in
05:24
05:24 Apac and finishes in Mexico coming
05:27
05:27 through uh AMIA throughout throughout
05:29
05:29 the course of it. Um that was 12
05:31
05:31 regional streams right. So AI has
05:33
05:33 collapsed the cost of translation and
05:35
05:35 the and obviously the production uh side
05:37
05:37 of that but it didn’t tell us what we
05:40
05:40 needed to say for each of those streams.
05:42
05:42 So we’ve made it one event
05:44
05:44 >> but each event had its own local element
05:46
05:46 to it. So it’s definitely collapsed the
05:48
05:48 cost of doing it. uh allows us to run it
05:50
05:50 as one you know virtual global event but
05:54
05:54 is very unique in the way it lands in
05:55
05:55 each of our markets.
05:56
05:56 >> Interesting. So so in terms of other
05:59
05:59 examples how about some of the
06:01
06:01 organizations people platforms using
06:04
06:04 your platforms to get their messages
06:06
06:06 out. What example comes to mind there
06:07
06:07 because in my mind there’s this complete
06:10
06:10 spectrum of massive organizations
06:12
06:12 small organizations but also things must
06:15
06:15 show up on the platforms which are not
06:17
06:17 not business at all. Of course.
06:19
06:19 >> Yeah. Look, you’re you’re going back to
06:22
06:22 my beginnings at Facebook um where I
06:25
06:25 started working with our small business
06:26
06:26 team and I think one of the most
06:28
06:28 successful things we did was run boost
06:30
06:30 your business. So, and that was a global
06:33
06:33 program. Um it actually began in the
06:35
06:35 regions which was amazing out of a need
06:37
06:37 that we saw to actually put a face to
06:39
06:39 Facebook for all of these small
06:40
06:40 businesses who were starting to use our
06:42
06:42 platform and needed more digital skills.
06:45
06:45 So uh it was really at the start of that
06:47
06:47 transformation and that was not to do
06:49
06:49 with how much money you were spending
06:50
06:50 with us. So it was organic from like
06:52
06:52 people who were using it just to build
06:54
06:54 community
06:55
06:55 >> right the way through to those
06:56
06:56 businesses who actually were spending
06:58
06:58 quite a bit of money. Um and what we did
07:01
07:01 was we we opened the doors and we
07:03
07:03 brought people into that digital
07:04
07:04 training allowed them to ask questions
07:06
07:06 about the platform to get problems
07:07
07:07 solved along the way. uh and how we
07:10
07:10 showed up in every location differed um
07:12
07:12 because it depended on what the needs
07:14
07:14 were whether we were showing up in a
07:16
07:16 very small town in France or we were
07:18
07:18 showing up in Chicago as the program
07:19
07:19 became global or if we were running a
07:22
07:22 big event here in London and even the
07:23
07:23 audience size would differ right because
07:25
07:25 we could have had thousands attending an
07:27
07:27 event in London and only a couple of
07:28
07:28 hundred in leads so um and that was
07:32
07:32 really authentic I would say in terms of
07:34
07:34 like how we brought that to market um it
07:36
07:36 was it wasn’t a it wasn’t a very big
07:39
07:39 sparkly production. We just showed up,
07:41
07:41 rode into town and and really helped
07:43
07:43 people to solve some of the biggest
07:44
07:44 problems that they had. I think the
07:46
07:46 beauty um of that program was that we
07:49
07:49 met businesses, many whom even here in
07:51
07:51 the UK I’m I’m still friends with
07:53
07:53 actually as a result of that who turned
07:56
07:56 a passion into a business, right, and
07:58
07:58 really began to make a living out of it.
07:59
07:59 And that was like really at the heart of
08:01
08:01 what we were trying to do, which was to
08:03
08:03 you know support entrepreneurship and
08:05
08:05 the and economic growth.
08:06
08:06 >> Yeah. And and is there something there
08:08
08:08 Martina because um boost your business
08:11
08:11 when when would that have been? That’s
08:13
08:13 probably gosh over five years ago more.
08:15
08:15 >> Oh yeah. I think we I think the the
08:17
08:17 first one we ran was here in London in
08:19
08:19 February 2015.
08:21
08:21 >> Yeah. Yeah. So more like 10 years ago.
08:22
08:22 Gosh, time flies. Um I’m just trying to
08:24
08:24 get a sense of how things have changed
08:27
08:27 in terms of the conversations that you
08:28
08:28 would now be having. I mean AI of course
08:30
08:30 would have existed then it wouldn’t have
08:32
08:32 been on the lips of uh the minds of the
08:34
08:34 founders that you were talking to then.
08:36
08:36 >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean look, I think the
08:38
08:38 same some of we I think we see here some
08:40
08:40 of the same challenges from the small
08:42
08:42 business owners as we did then. Um most
08:45
08:45 small business owners that I talk to
08:47
08:47 still their number one priority is to
08:49
08:49 get more customers. Um I suppose they’re
08:53
08:53 how they’re thinking about AI is like
08:56
08:56 they want to be actually able to
08:57
08:57 understand I suppose how it can help
08:58
08:58 them automate some of their most you
09:01
09:01 know tedious tasks because you’re the
09:03
09:03 CEO and you’re the CMO and you’re also
09:05
09:05 you know the head of production and
09:07
09:07 you’re playing up many wearing many hats
09:09
09:09 right
09:10
09:10 >> uh so there’s definitely a there’s
09:11
09:11 definitely a role for AI to play you
09:13
09:13 know to support them in what they need
09:15
09:15 to do for their business. Um, but I
09:17
09:17 think some of the challenges are still
09:18
09:18 the same, right? They’re still looking
09:20
09:20 to get more customers, to expand to more
09:22
09:22 markets, to open new stores, to, you
09:24
09:24 know, depending on on what their um on
09:26
09:26 what they’re
09:27
09:27 >> and planting that seed that they can be
09:29
09:29 global businesses as well and have have
09:31
09:31 those customers um everywhere. I also am
09:33
09:33 conscious that um in your role you’re
09:36
09:36 working with very different sizes of
09:37
09:37 organization as well. So in terms of you
09:40
09:40 know quote the day job just help us a
09:42
09:42 bit more bring that to life. what would
09:43
09:43 be the sort of organization
09:45
09:45 uh at the other end of the spectrum if
09:47
09:47 you like that you might be working with
09:49
09:49 and how would you actually help them?
09:51
09:51 >> Yeah, I mean you know we’re working with
09:52
09:52 businesses of all sizes small right the
09:54
09:54 way through to very large enterprises.
09:56
09:56 Uh one of the biggest um projects that
09:59
09:59 we’re working on with enterprises at the
10:00
10:00 moment is is business messaging and how
10:03
10:03 they integrate business messaging into
10:05
10:05 the full stack of their of their CRM
10:07
10:07 systems. uh which is you know completely
10:09
10:09 the other end of the spectrum of
10:11
10:11 supporting small businesses to you know
10:13
10:13 be able to use the platforms to to
10:14
10:14 communicate with their communities.
10:16
10:16 >> Okay. So this is interesting because
10:17
10:17 that’s beyond what lots of us would
10:19
10:19 think about in terms of marketing and
10:20
10:20 advertising. This is about business
10:22
10:22 messaging. So help us to understand how
10:24
10:24 that business messaging side of things
10:27
10:27 will impact the customer but also those
10:29
10:29 companies.
10:29
10:29 >> Well actually it’s like it’s a
10:31
10:31 communication channel for them. It’s
10:32
10:32 like a you know uh in terms of it’s it’s
10:34
10:34 certainly supports with their CRM but
10:36
10:36 helps them have conversations with their
10:38
10:38 customers about uh what they’re you know
10:41
10:41 utility as well right deliveries so uh
10:44
10:44 so one of the best examples might be I
10:46
10:46 don’t know for you certainly for me who
10:48
10:48 does a lot of online shopping is
10:49
10:49 probably when I get DHL telling me you
10:51
10:51 know we’re delivering your package today
10:53
10:53 >> should do I need a signature or can I
10:55
10:55 leave it on your porch
10:56
10:56 >> uh which has really changed how I
10:59
10:59 interact you know with businesses in
11:00
11:00 terms of getting deliveries on time to
11:02
11:02 my house not ringing up saying I missed
11:05
11:05 my delivery can you send it right so it
11:07
11:07 allows me through WhatsApp to actually
11:09
11:09 say you can leave it in the porch um so
11:12
11:12 you know so it’s really about that
11:14
11:14 integration of the CRM into the into
11:16
11:16 their into their CRM stack
11:18
11:18 >> right and already that has totally
11:20
11:20 opened my perspective the obvious that
11:23
11:23 this is multiple platforms this is
11:25
11:25 Facebook this is Instagram it’s WhatsApp
11:27
11:27 but also that idea that it isn’t just
11:29
11:29 advertising that it’s being far more
11:31
11:31 creative
11:32
11:32 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um I think
11:35
11:35 look the business model has expanded
11:37
11:37 definitely uh beyond ads uh into into
11:40
11:40 business messaging now you know into
11:43
11:43 into AI solutions. Um but I do think
11:46
11:46 that the needs that we’re serving for
11:48
11:48 businesses remain the same right in
11:50
11:50 terms of like how we think about uh what
11:52
11:52 that value is to the customer. Is it the
11:54
11:54 right product market fit? How are we
11:56
11:56 going to market in a particular um
11:58
11:58 location or in in a particular market?
12:00
12:00 Um so I think a lot of the fundamentals
12:02
12:02 haven’t changed in terms of how we think
12:04
12:04 about going to market.
12:05
12:05 >> Right. So so on that um I hinted at this
12:10
12:10 uh a little earlier. This idea that uh
12:12
12:12 campaign ideas are being cooked up
12:14
12:14 centrally and then they’re almost being
12:15
12:15 disseminated and evolved around the
12:18
12:18 world. Um to what extent is that
12:20
12:20 actually how it works? And um are there
12:23
12:23 examples where it’s happened almost the
12:25
12:25 other way round that something has
12:26
12:26 emerged from a from a specific location
12:28
12:28 and almost been adopted?
12:30
12:30 >> Yeah, look I think it happens I think
12:32
12:32 both things can be true, right? So I do
12:35
12:35 think that actually having global
12:36
12:36 consistency and having a global spine
12:38
12:38 and your brand and how you turn up is
12:40
12:40 really important because as I said
12:41
12:41 earlier you don’t reitigate the brand
12:43
12:43 all the time. I think what it allows the
12:46
12:46 team to do is to have the space to
12:47
12:47 really ensure that they’re driving
12:48
12:48 relevance in terms of the message in
12:50
12:50 terms of like how we’re going to market
12:52
12:52 with the work. It allows more space I
12:55
12:55 think for that cultural fluency.
12:57
12:57 >> Um a really good example of that I think
12:59
12:59 is is the work that we’re doing with
13:01
13:01 creators at the moment and and that
13:03
13:03 whole ecosystem.
13:05
13:05 um which is definitely born from the
13:07
13:07 ground up because we have uh we have
13:09
13:09 marketing managers in each of our
13:11
13:11 markets who are working at that
13:13
13:13 intersection between culture and
13:14
13:14 business and they can see what both
13:16
13:16 businesses need and actually what what
13:18
13:18 what the creators need right and there’s
13:21
13:21 an opportunity for both a bit like the
13:23
13:23 small business sector as well there’s an
13:25
13:25 opportunity for both the creators the
13:26
13:26 small businesses the large businesses to
13:28
13:28 monetize
13:29
13:29 >> uh and that’s definitely what the teams
13:31
13:31 on the ground can help them to do
13:32
13:32 >> and within that I get the formula but
13:34
13:34 within in that just give us a little
13:35
13:35 more of a sense of the role that you’re
13:37
13:37 able to play because in theory at least
13:39
13:39 there’s a matchmaking opportunity there.
13:41
13:41 >> Yes. Yeah, that’s well that’s exactly it
13:43
13:43 right. So uh so we can we run uh and we
13:47
13:47 have our we have our Meta Fest event
13:48
13:48 coming up in London next month. Uh so we
13:51
13:51 run these Metapest events which offer
13:53
13:53 the opportunity for businesses to meet
13:55
13:55 with creators for creators to meet with
13:56
13:56 businesses and to understand the value
13:58
13:58 exchange right and the opportunities
13:60
13:60 that exist. I mean I do an awful lot of
14:02
14:02 shopping on Instagram. I don’t know,
14:04
14:04 Ollie, if you do, but I do an awful lot
14:05
14:05 of shopping on Instagram. Yeah.
14:07
14:07 >> But most of what I’m buying now at the
14:10
14:10 moment is because I’m, you know,
14:12
14:12 following creators and influencers who
14:14
14:14 are my age profile,
14:16
14:16 >> uh, who are actually giving me a sense
14:18
14:18 of potentially what I can wear, right?
14:20
14:20 So, uh, and and then I’m purchasing
14:22
14:22 because of that, right? So, I am I’m
14:24
14:24 following what they are doing and I’m
14:26
14:26 purchasing what they’re doing. So the
14:27
14:27 opportunity for us to to share that and
14:29
14:29 open up that economic opportunity for
14:32
14:32 everyone is is is huge, right? And and
14:35
14:35 the ability to do and I don’t believe
14:36
14:36 that that’s something that you do
14:38
14:38 globally, right? You need to do that in
14:40
14:40 the markets in which you’re operating in
14:41
14:41 for it to be truly authentic to for it
14:43
14:43 to be, you know, truly I think meet the
14:46
14:46 mark in terms of what people are looking
14:48
14:48 for.
14:48
14:48 >> Yeah. Right. Quite a lot of fitness ads.
14:50
14:50 I don’t know if they’re trying to say
14:51
14:51 something much. You know, we we could
14:52
14:52 talk about this.
14:53
14:53 >> It might be what you’ve been searching
14:54
14:54 for.
14:54
14:54 >> It could be that. It could be that as
14:56
14:56 well because one one thing and and this
14:57
14:57 might I think might certainly isn’t um
14:60
14:60 you know core maybe it is to your to
15:02
15:02 your to your role but one thing that’s
15:04
15:04 been on my mind for those creators is I
15:06
15:06 can imagine a world in which some of
15:08
15:08 them are actually pretty um freaked out
15:10
15:10 my words um by AI and what it represents
15:13
15:13 in terms of the ability to generate
15:15
15:15 images. Others must be absolutely
15:17
15:17 embracing it. So there’s a sort of sense
15:19
15:19 of
15:20
15:20 >> how do you how do you help navigate
15:22
15:22 really as as well as that crucial
15:24
15:24 matchmaking? Yeah, I mean look, I think
15:27
15:27 um there are I’m already seeing huge
15:30
15:30 benefits from AI, but you need to have
15:32
15:32 your I mean, you need to be at the
15:33
15:33 center of it, right? in terms of so uh
15:36
15:36 and I and I don’t think that we will
15:38
15:38 ever get to a stage where we won’t need
15:40
15:40 humans to you know um make sure it’s you
15:43
15:43 know it’s the right prompt it’s the
15:45
15:45 right it’s you know so I for us with the
15:48
15:48 with the creators it’s definitely the
15:50
15:50 tools that that they can use which is
15:52
15:52 making it much easier for them to get
15:54
15:54 content onto the platforms in a much you
15:56
15:56 know easier and quicker way
15:58
15:58 >> uh but I don’t think it’s ever going to
15:60
15:60 replace the need for them to be actually
16:02
16:02 in the center of the conversation
16:04
16:04 So and and so there’s a lot of that that
16:06
16:06 we’re doing. I mean that’s you know
16:07
16:07 that’s literally workshopped on the
16:09
16:09 ground with them you know showing them
16:10
16:10 how to use the tools.
16:11
16:11 >> So when we talk about measuring things
16:13
16:13 in marketing uh it strikes me that one
16:16
16:16 of the easier things probably to measure
16:18
16:18 is reach. Uh what else?
16:20
16:20 >> Well look look reach is probably the
16:23
16:23 easiest thing to measure but it doesn’t
16:26
16:26 tell you an awful lot. Right. So uh so
16:29
16:29 you know our method has always been test
16:32
16:32 iterate and scale right because it’s
16:34
16:34 what you learn in that process that
16:36
16:36 tells you whether it’s worth scaling or
16:38
16:38 not because you’ll know what you’re
16:39
16:39 measuring for. Uh if you had Alex Schulz
16:42
16:42 our CMO sitting here he will tell you
16:44
16:44 that you know and he has instilled in us
16:46
16:46 all that incrementality is everything.
16:48
16:48 So we need to measure the incremental
16:50
16:50 value of the marketing so we know what
16:51
16:51 marketing is delivered versus like what
16:54
16:54 the economy might have been doing
16:56
16:56 otherwise right or anyway right so and I
16:58
16:58 I think that’s really important for us
16:60
17:00 >> well in him by the way I think you have
17:02
17:02 a CMO obsessed by data as well
17:05
17:05 >> yeah and it’s it’s been really
17:06
17:06 interesting through my career right
17:07
17:07 because I’ve gone from organizations
17:10
17:10 like HSBC with the brilliant CMO Chris
17:12
17:12 Clark
17:14
17:14 >> um who was very brand orientated and
17:16
17:16 created an incredible
17:18
17:18 um brand proposition with the world’s
17:19
17:19 local bank
17:20
17:20 >> you know so 20 years ago he was telling
17:22
17:22 the world that you know when all of the
17:24
17:24 banks were talking about global
17:25
17:25 dominance he was actually talking about
17:27
17:27 local relevance right uh and that was a
17:29
17:29 brilliant place to work and he was a
17:31
17:31 brilliant CMO to work and he was a big
17:32
17:32 brand person Alex is like so is is a big
17:36
17:36 data person right and that has been
17:37
17:37 brilliant even as my you know my career
17:39
17:39 has evolved uh working under Alex for
17:42
17:42 the last number of years because I had
17:44
17:44 become much more focused on what the
17:45
17:45 data can tell us and how we use the
17:48
17:48 data. But like you can’t measure
17:49
17:49 everything.
17:50
17:50 >> Um but I think what if you are measuring
17:53
17:53 or you certainly have credibility around
17:55
17:55 what you can measure and you see the
17:57
17:57 results compound over time, you then
17:60
17:60 have a little bit more license maybe
18:01
18:01 around the stuff that isn’t as easy to
18:03
18:03 measure.
18:03
18:03 >> Right? So but take us even within that a
18:07
18:07 little bit further. Say other than
18:09
18:09 reach, what are you interested in
18:10
18:10 measuring? What you helping people to
18:12
18:12 measure that the uninitiated might not
18:15
18:15 have expected? Yeah, I mean look, we’re
18:17
18:17 we’re measuring revenue growth as well,
18:19
18:19 right, for the business definitely uh
18:21
18:21 and the the impact of the marketing and
18:23
18:23 whether we’ve actually moved product.
18:25
18:25 Yeah.
18:25
18:25 >> Right. So that’s that’s definitely one
18:27
18:27 of the things that we’ve been doing. Uh
18:29
18:29 and that’s you know it’s really
18:30
18:30 important for the business in terms of
18:31
18:31 how we think about where we’re going to
18:33
18:33 invest next. So uh and that is an
18:36
18:36 important conversation right between
18:37
18:37 CMOs and CFOs I think in terms of
18:39
18:39 understanding where you’re spending your
18:42
18:42 money, what the return on investment is
18:44
18:44 uh and and how you’re going to reinvest
18:46
18:46 for the future. So so it is it is really
18:49
18:49 important
18:49
18:49 >> and and by the way presumably a lot of
18:51
18:51 the mystery been taken out of that
18:52
18:52 because the marketing and the
18:54
18:54 advertising and the retailing are closer
18:56
18:56 connected than they’ve ever been that
18:57
18:57 they wouldn’t have been 25 years ago. Uh
18:59
18:59 well look you and I are old enough to
19:01
19:01 remember Ollie if you don’t mind me
19:03
19:03 saying like when you would buy you know
19:05
19:05 a an ad in the paper and you wouldn’t
19:07
19:07 know whether it was actually going to
19:08
19:08 drive it drive the impact or not that
19:10
19:10 you wanted to see.
19:11
19:11 >> So uh so definitely digital tools have
19:13
19:13 revolutionized how you see and how you
19:15
19:15 see that offline to online connection
19:17
19:17 for sure.
19:20
19:20 So, something I am seriously excited to
19:23
19:23 tell you about, and that is something
19:24
19:24 we’ve been working on for quite a while
19:27
19:27 now at Future Forum, and it is this. We
19:29
19:29 are having our first ever flagship
19:32
19:32 gathering in person in October in
19:35
19:35 London’s King’s Cross on the 14th and
19:39
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19:41
19:41 jumping from your podcast feed into real
19:45
19:45 life. And we would absolutely love you
19:47
19:47 to join us. You’ll get to catch up with
19:49
19:49 a whole host of the speakers and guests
19:52
19:52 from tomorrow, including the fabulous
19:55
19:55 Brit School, including Lord Stockwood,
19:58
19:58 chair of the Office for Investment,
19:59
19:59 Siobhan Havland from the British
20:01
20:01 Chambers will be there, Dame Julia Hoget
20:03
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20:05
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20:07
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20:10
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20:12
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20:16
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20:18
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20:21
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20:24
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20:25
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20:28
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20:31
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20:33
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20:36
20:36 use the code word tomorrow. I’ll see you
20:39
20:39 there.
20:43
20:43 The thing that was sort of going through
20:45
20:45 my mind as you were explaining those
20:47
20:47 very large global companies there was
20:50
20:50 this idea of trust
20:52
20:52 >> and I just wonder to what extent that
20:53
20:53 can be measured or is that totally
20:56
20:56 separate?
20:56
20:56 >> I mean trust is a long-term goal I
20:59
20:59 think. Um, I mean, look, there isn’t I
21:02
21:02 don’t know any marketeteer who would
21:04
21:04 tell you that they’re not con, you know,
21:05
21:05 that they’re they’re not thinking about
21:07
21:07 how they drive short-term return for the
21:08
21:08 business, but also but also thinking
21:10
21:10 about how they do that, uh, while
21:12
21:12 keeping the long-term health of the
21:14
21:14 business in mind.
21:15
21:15 >> So, trust is definitely something that’s
21:17
21:17 a long-term goal and you build it over
21:20
21:20 time undoubtedly.
21:21
21:21 >> Um, but, you know, it’s how you strike
21:24
21:24 the balance, I think, between the two in
21:26
21:26 your in your in your marketing plan.
21:28
21:28 It’s an interesting thought, isn’t it?
21:29
21:29 Because the impatient CMO quite
21:32
21:32 understandably wants to see the return
21:33
21:33 today,
21:34
21:34 >> you know, tomorrow at the latest sort of
21:36
21:36 thing. Except what a lot of them will be
21:38
21:38 trying to do is presumably change
21:40
21:40 behaviors over quite a long time. So,
21:42
21:42 they’re having to navigate both, aren’t
21:44
21:44 they?
21:44
21:44 >> Definitely having to navigate both. Um,
21:47
21:47 but I do think there is room for both in
21:50
21:50 your plan because I think there are
21:52
21:52 again as I was saying if you can show
21:53
21:53 the short-term returns and definitely
21:56
21:56 the the ROI that you gain from it, it
21:58
21:58 does give you the license to also look
21:60
21:60 at those longer term metrics and how
22:01
22:01 you’re thinking about it because the
22:02
22:02 longerterm health of the business isn’t
22:04
22:04 just a CMO’s job to do, right? It’s
22:06
22:06 everybody’s job to do. So, uh, and and
22:09
22:09 and important, you know, for where the
22:11
22:11 business is going to go over the long
22:12
22:12 term.
22:12
22:12 >> It’s really interesting. I’ve been
22:14
22:14 speaking to several colleagues recently
22:16
22:16 who are explaining how their chief AI
22:18
22:18 officer reports into the chief exec not
22:21
22:21 into the CTO. So in other words um it’s
22:24
22:24 seen as business transformational across
22:27
22:27 the organization.
22:28
22:28 >> Even how we structure these
22:29
22:29 conversations
22:31
22:31 >> there are days gone by when
22:33
22:33 >> the level of technology we’re discussing
22:36
22:36 >> wouldn’t have been so close to the CMO’s
22:38
22:38 mindset. Right.
22:39
22:39 >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Um I mean look and
22:42
22:42 that’s it is really important I think
22:44
22:44 that the CMO has a seat at the top table
22:47
22:47 right to have those conversations
22:48
22:48 alongside the CFO the CTO um you know I
22:52
22:52 definitely think we’ve gone past the
22:53
22:53 days where marketing are reporting in
22:55
22:55 through sales through everywhere else
22:57
22:57 right it’s a it’s definitely seen as a
22:59
22:59 discipline within its own right that has
23:01
23:01 you know um significant importance for
23:04
23:04 the for the health of the business
23:07
23:07 >> one thing that was um on my mind is this
23:10
23:10 idea that um
23:13
23:13 with AI and the tools that we’ve been
23:15
23:15 talking about, is there a risk there
23:18
23:18 that um it can make everything, you
23:20
23:20 know, technically excellent but
23:23
23:23 culturally a bit same same. So almost
23:26
23:26 you you you want to be able to cut
23:27
23:27 through.
23:28
23:28 >> Yeah. I mean, look, it’s really
23:30
23:30 interesting, isn’t it? I have a
23:31
23:31 15-year-old daughter and uh I have been
23:34
23:34 amazed by how she has told me that she’s
23:36
23:36 been using AI to like study for her
23:37
23:37 exams.
23:38
23:38 >> Mhm. like, “Mom, let let me talk you
23:40
23:40 through my, you know, my study plan.”
23:42
23:42 Uh, and for me, I that, you know, and
23:46
23:46 I’m coming from someone who didn’t grow
23:47
23:47 up digitally native, right? I I’m like,
23:50
23:50 “Oh my god, is she going to lose the
23:51
23:51 ability to critically think, right?” And
23:53
23:53 uh and so for me what’s really important
23:57
23:57 is that we instill the importance in
23:59
23:59 people of like continuing to actually
24:02
24:02 you know lead the system in terms of
24:05
24:05 like and this is and this is a pivotable
24:07
24:07 moment for us I think right now actually
24:09
24:09 in our ability to do that. So I would be
24:12
24:12 certainly saying to my daughter you need
24:14
24:14 to continue to read and read widely and
24:16
24:16 be able to critically assess
24:17
24:17 information. I’m certainly saying to my
24:20
24:20 to the team, AI is like a really
24:22
24:22 powerful personal assistant for you, but
24:25
24:25 it’s actually not the only thing that’s
24:28
24:28 doing the work. I expect that human
24:31
24:31 oversight in terms of what we’re doing
24:33
24:33 and also all of your incredible smarts
24:36
24:36 to be part of the equation as well. So,
24:38
24:38 I do think, you know, it has to be like
24:41
24:41 everything in life, you’ve got to get
24:42
24:42 the balance right. But I do believe that
24:44
24:44 we’re at a pivotal moment now and the
24:46
24:46 opportunity is now for us to ensure that
24:48
24:48 we have this technology in our hands and
24:50
24:50 that we are using it in a way that makes
24:52
24:52 it in service of us rather than feeling
24:54
24:54 that we’re going to become in service of
24:56
24:56 it. Um so you know so for me critical
24:60
24:60 thinking cultural fluency uh the ability
25:03
25:03 to actually you know bring the local
25:05
25:05 market insight on and what’s happening
25:07
25:07 on the ground and how customers are
25:09
25:09 feeling is so important right in in
25:12
25:12 terms of how we think about what we
25:14
25:14 create
25:14
25:14 >> right um on that I still am quite
25:16
25:16 intrigued by this idea and funny enough
25:19
25:19 as you were speaking uh earlier before
25:21
25:21 you’d mentioned HSBC I was thinking
25:23
25:23 about HSBC because they have the global
25:26
25:26 um brand the local image. Um, and there
25:29
25:29 are some brands that have made their
25:30
25:30 thing same everywhere. McDonald’s would
25:33
25:33 be a good example. One would hope that a
25:35
25:35 big brand tastes the same everywhere.
25:36
25:36 And I I am going to push on it a little
25:38
25:38 more just that idea that there might be
25:40
25:40 other organizations that just show up
25:42
25:42 almost not completely differently, but
25:44
25:44 you know, very differently depending on
25:46
25:46 where you go. I just wonder to what
25:48
25:48 extent you ever seen that. Um, so it’s
25:52
25:52 interesting. The HSBC example was a good
25:54
25:54 one because actually it wasn’t just a
25:56
25:56 brand proposition. It was actually a
25:57
25:57 value proposition everywhere that they
25:59
25:59 operated. And they and they one of their
26:01
26:01 one of the favorite campaigns that we
26:03
26:03 had was a points of value and it was the
26:05
26:05 grasshopper. It was the image of the
26:06
26:06 grasshopper which you know we would
26:08
26:08 consider a pest here. Uh in parts of uh
26:11
26:11 Asia it’s you know really good luck. In
26:13
26:13 other parts of the world it might be
26:15
26:15 something you’d eat, right? So like
26:16
26:16 there’s and I think that cultural
26:18
26:18 relevance is really important no matter
26:20
26:20 where you go. You’re right with like
26:22
26:22 McDonald’s and Apple and and other
26:24
26:24 brands like that where I suppose there’s
26:26
26:26 great value in in showing up as the same
26:29
26:29 wherever you are because people have an
26:31
26:31 expectation of that product and they
26:32
26:32 want to actually experience it as being
26:34
26:34 the same. So I think it very much
26:36
26:36 depends on what your product is and what
26:39
26:39 your ambition is for the brand in terms
26:41
26:41 of in terms of what you want to do. Um,
26:45
26:45 so for for McDonald’s, yeah, they do in
26:48
26:48 the main show up the same everywhere,
26:50
26:50 but there is always, you know, the local
26:52
26:52 Ronald McDonald charities and the other
26:54
26:54 things that they do that help them, you
26:55
26:55 know, really connect with their local
26:57
26:57 communities, too.
26:57
26:57 >> Yeah. No, go.
26:58
26:58 >> So, so I do I do think that I do think
27:00
27:00 you can do both. Um for us I think you
27:05
27:05 know we have lots of different campaigns
27:09
27:09 that are uh run from the ground up
27:11
27:11 definitely in ter particularly in that
27:13
27:13 space of you know creator the creator
27:16
27:16 economy but I do believe that actually
27:18
27:18 having the strength of the brand is
27:20
27:20 actually also what gives people um the
27:23
27:23 reassurance actually that what they’re
27:25
27:25 buying into will deliver value for them.
27:27
27:27 >> Yeah.
27:28
27:28 >> Right. Because they have obviously been
27:29
27:29 using Facebook or Instagram or WhatsApp
27:31
27:31 now. right in terms of their part of
27:33
27:33 their marketing mix
27:34
27:34 >> and and and I should know this and um
27:37
27:37 forgive me but when that particular
27:39
27:39 think about small businesses because
27:40
27:40 it’s very close to my heart are they
27:42
27:42 effectively dealing with three different
27:45
27:45 let’s say front doors let’s say they’re
27:46
27:46 going across WhatsApp Instagram Facebook
27:49
27:49 or is there a way to help them navigate
27:50
27:50 between them
27:51
27:51 >> you know they they come in through the
27:53
27:53 metador yeah they come in through the
27:55
27:55 metador and then define which platform
27:58
27:58 or actually using the the AI um the AI
28:02
28:02 tools that we have now that that will
28:03
28:03 decide for them depending on where
28:05
28:05 they’re getting the most traction from
28:06
28:06 their customers.
28:07
28:07 >> Yeah. Got it. Interesting. Um speaking
28:09
28:09 of grasshoppers, I’m going to jump
28:11
28:11 around because we have a motto future
28:13
28:13 form around leave your lane. This idea
28:15
28:15 of learning from totally different
28:17
28:17 worlds, different industries. So I
28:19
28:19 thought I might sort of put that phrase
28:20
28:20 to you Martina. To what extent it
28:22
28:22 resonates to what where do you learn
28:24
28:24 from? Where do you get your thinking and
28:26
28:26 ideas? Oh, look, I leading an
28:29
28:29 international marketing team, I honestly
28:31
28:31 believe, you know, my biggest strength
28:33
28:33 is hiring people who are way better than
28:34
28:34 me, right? And I’ve definitely I’m so
28:37
28:37 pleased to say that I have lots of
28:39
28:39 people working with us that are way way
28:40
28:40 better than I am. uh and they bring all
28:43
28:43 of you know all of their smarts and all
28:45
28:45 of uh their local knowledge to play in
28:47
28:47 the work that we do because you know I
28:50
28:50 my lived experience actually has been
28:52
28:52 working out of Ireland for my career and
28:54
28:54 and of course I’ve seen the benefits of
28:56
28:56 Ireland opening up stores to the world
28:58
28:58 right and and I wouldn’t be in a
28:60
28:60 situation where I was able to work from
29:01
29:01 my hometown if that hadn’t have happened
29:04
29:04 right and I I’m very aware of the
29:05
29:05 privilege um that that’s around that h
29:08
29:08 but at the same time I think for me
29:10
29:10 people are at the part of everything for
29:13
29:13 me. Uh I love people. I love
29:15
29:15 conversation. I love understanding what
29:16
29:16 makes somebody tick and uh so for me
29:20
29:20 this is like the perfect the perfect
29:22
29:22 role if you like. I’m always learning so
29:25
29:25 and always learning from others around
29:26
29:26 me.
29:26
29:26 >> So I get the sense that you value that
29:29
29:29 proximity especially with colleagues and
29:31
29:31 face to face in many occasions. To what
29:33
29:33 extent are you able to enjoy that with
29:35
29:35 clients as well or does it have to be
29:36
29:36 more virtual?
29:37
29:37 >> Yeah. Well, that’s really interesting
29:39
29:39 actually that you say that because um I
29:42
29:42 think the the modern, you know,
29:44
29:44 marketeteer uh has to be really close,
29:46
29:46 has to have proximity to to their
29:48
29:48 customers, right? Um and so much of what
29:50
29:50 we do is not just on our own as
29:53
29:53 marketeers. So, yes, of course, we have
29:54
29:54 scale campaigns that run, but we do an
29:56
29:56 awful lot of, you know, particularly in
29:58
29:58 B2B marketing, so much of what we do is
29:60
29:60 relationship marketing.
30:01
30:01 >> Uh and we don’t do that on our own. We
30:03
30:03 work with our sales teams. We work
30:05
30:05 directly to with our customers. Um so
30:07
30:07 actually I think for me the big thing is
30:09
30:09 as as capability in tools becomes better
30:12
30:12 the bigger part of my job actually will
30:15
30:15 become creating more proximity with
30:17
30:17 customers
30:18
30:18 >> you know and getting much closer to
30:19
30:19 hearing what the customer needs because
30:21
30:21 as you know I think two really important
30:23
30:23 things to me is like what value are we
30:25
30:25 bringing to the customer and then what
30:27
30:27 value are we driving for the business.
30:28
30:28 Yeah.
30:29
30:29 >> So, and I think if you can answer both
30:30
30:30 of those questions well, you’re doing a
30:32
30:32 good job.
30:33
30:33 >> And also presumably um making sure that
30:36
30:36 what you’re offering is in tune with
30:38
30:38 what they are ready for.
30:40
30:40 >> Yes.
30:40
30:40 >> Especially when you’re talking about
30:42
30:42 very large technological advances.
30:44
30:44 >> Yeah.
30:45
30:45 >> Um that that it’s that um slightly in
30:47
30:47 lock step there. Um slightly more
30:49
30:49 personal question based on the team
30:51
30:51 comment. How do you keep up? uh because
30:53
30:53 you’ve you’ve complemented your team and
30:55
30:55 their expertise, but you have to find
30:57
30:57 the head space for this as well.
30:59
30:59 >> I do. Well, I travel a lot, so I spend a
31:01
31:01 lot of time on planes, so I read a lot.
31:03
31:03 Uh I I keep up with the industry through
31:06
31:06 like reading everything that comes into
31:08
31:08 my inbox and more and searching for
31:10
31:10 stuff. Uh and and also just from having
31:13
31:13 conversations with with people, you
31:15
31:15 know, uh in the industry. I think one of
31:17
31:17 the we spoke about it briefly before we
31:19
31:19 started to record but we you know we did
31:21
31:21 a lot of work with industry bodies
31:22
31:22 across the UK when we were doing the
31:24
31:24 boost your business program in every
31:25
31:25 market in which we operated we couldn’t
31:27
31:27 have done it unless we worked with the
31:29
31:29 local uh local industry bodies so we
31:31
31:31 worked a lot with enterprise nation with
31:33
31:33 the British chambers of commerce with
31:34
31:34 the federation of small business and
31:36
31:36 they definitely also give you an insight
31:37
31:37 into what’s happening on the ground
31:40
31:40 >> uh and how people are feeling and you
31:41
31:41 know what the big challenges are
31:43
31:43 particularly in that in that case for
31:45
31:45 small businesses So I keep those
31:47
31:47 connections alive and well as well and
31:49
31:49 tend to you know whenever I travel into
31:50
31:50 market I try and make sure that I get
31:52
31:52 out to meet people in the in the local
31:54
31:54 community too.
31:55
31:55 >> Good to hear and very happy to hear you
31:58
31:58 nameing there some of our friends and
31:60
31:60 collaborators on the British Chambers of
32:01
32:01 Commerce uh full marks. Um I’m not
32:05
32:05 asking you to break any embargos. What
32:07
32:07 uh give us a glimpse of what’s what’s
32:09
32:09 coming? What’s on your mind in terms of
32:10
32:10 what you’d like to do more of on that?
32:12
32:12 Because what you’re hinting at there is
32:15
32:15 being very well connected to an
32:17
32:17 ecosystem. Yeah.
32:18
32:18 >> You’re not hovering above it like
32:19
32:19 Independence Day.
32:20
32:20 >> Yeah.
32:21
32:21 >> You you’re you’re making those personal
32:23
32:23 connections.
32:23
32:23 >> Yeah.
32:24
32:24 >> What would you like to see more of?
32:26
32:26 >> Um well, you know,
32:28
32:28 >> I think for all of us, right, in ter
32:31
32:31 like for me, marketing is all about life
32:33
32:33 is all about humanto human connection.
32:36
32:36 So the more that we can actually you
32:38
32:38 know get out and speak to people who are
32:40
32:40 who are using the product who are
32:42
32:42 working with us who understand give us
32:44
32:44 feedback right you need that feedback
32:45
32:45 and you need it both anecdotally and
32:48
32:48 also from doing sort of research right
32:50
32:50 so so uh that’s really important to us
32:53
32:53 as we as we move forward um but at the
32:56
32:56 same time I think you know for me
32:58
32:58 personally
32:60
32:60 um
33:01
33:01 how the team operate and sort of like
33:04
33:04 how we think about you allowing the team
33:06
33:06 to um originate more content from the
33:10
33:10 ground up is really important as well
33:12
33:12 and like all the while as I said I’m I’m
33:14
33:14 not saying that you know anyone is
33:16
33:16 saying you don’t need the spine of your
33:18
33:18 global brand you definitely do um but I
33:21
33:21 think both things can be true right in
33:23
33:23 terms of like cultural fluency and
33:25
33:25 relevance and taste I think all of those
33:27
33:27 things are really important in terms of
33:29
33:29 how we move forward
33:30
33:30 >> yeah it’s hugely got me thinking about
33:31
33:31 this dance almost between those
33:34
33:34 >> because there will be a risk appetite
33:35
33:35 for a CMO saying we don’t want to
33:37
33:37 deviate too far from what we stand for.
33:40
33:40 But at the end of the day, we know when
33:41
33:41 we’re empowering creators around the
33:43
33:43 world, they want to take risks with
33:44
33:44 ideas. They want to do things
33:46
33:46 differently. They want to stand out from
33:47
33:47 the crowd, don’t they?
33:49
33:49 >> Yeah, they do. And look, I think you can
33:50
33:50 I think you can do that with a you know,
33:53
33:53 you can create a playbook that gives
33:55
33:55 some leeway across across the board. And
33:58
33:58 look and I mean I can’t speak for every
33:60
34:00 for every brand for sure but uh but you
34:04
34:04 can do that I think it’s possible to do
34:05
34:05 it because otherwise that’s the
34:06
34:06 authenticity that you’re looking for
34:08
34:08 right that’s what you’re asking them
34:10
34:10 them for so you need to enable them to
34:12
34:12 do it and I think the more that you
34:13
34:13 speak to creators as well the more that
34:15
34:15 they feel that brands are trying to
34:18
34:18 control how they say it and what they
34:20
34:20 say it doesn’t resonate with their
34:21
34:21 audience and it doesn’t resonate with
34:23
34:23 their community you will tend to scroll
34:24
34:24 by it right because you will feel that
34:26
34:26 it’s you know it is an ad versus
34:29
34:29 actually what they do really well which
34:31
34:31 is to bring you on this journey with
34:33
34:33 them and to make you part of the
34:34
34:34 conversation.
34:35
34:35 >> Yeah. And create something that actually
34:36
34:36 connects.
34:37
34:37 >> Yeah. 100%.
34:38
34:38 >> This this is fascinating because I think
34:40
34:40 what I have in my mind is this mixture
34:42
34:42 of the creator, the brand very often the
34:44
34:44 small business as well
34:45
34:45 >> because those entrepreneurs want to
34:47
34:47 stand out and want to cut through.
34:48
34:48 >> They do.
34:49
34:49 >> And very often they might think some of
34:50
34:50 these um platforms are out of their
34:52
34:52 reach.
34:54
34:54 >> Yeah. I mean look I think the the beauty
34:57
34:57 of platforms uh like Facebook and
34:60
34:60 Instagram and increasingly WhatsApp for
35:02
35:02 small businesses is that they are able
35:05
35:05 to communicate with their customers
35:07
35:07 where their customers are right in terms
35:09
35:09 of and what they want from them. uh and
35:12
35:12 I think we’ve seen so many small
35:14
35:14 businesses organically grow on the
35:16
35:16 platform and use it for community uh and
35:19
35:19 and as a place as well to share I think
35:22
35:22 you know important updates with their
35:23
35:23 customers around you know when they’re
35:25
35:25 open when they’re when they’re trading
35:27
35:27 when they’re not trading uh and also so
35:31
35:31 many small businesses uh over the years
35:33
35:33 have you know told me you know they
35:35
35:35 didn’t think they were going to go they
35:37
35:37 opened their store in one location and
35:40
35:40 they didn’t think they were even going
35:41
35:41 to reach as far is the next town, right?
35:43
35:43 And suddenly they have people traveling
35:44
35:44 in to their to their shop at the weekend
35:47
35:47 or actually they’re opening stores
35:49
35:49 further a field that they didn’t think
35:50
35:50 was going to happen or actually
35:52
35:52 exporting, right? Um some businesses
35:54
35:54 would have said to me, you know, I
35:56
35:56 thought I’d export in 5 years, you know,
35:58
35:58 within two I was getting overseas
35:60
35:60 queries. Yeah. So it it’s the perfect
36:03
36:03 combination of actually like the modern
36:05
36:05 dinner party, right, where it’s word of
36:07
36:07 mouth a lot of the time as well and also
36:10
36:10 the opportunity to actually um boost
36:13
36:13 that as well with a with advertising
36:15
36:15 right so I think it gives you so many
36:16
36:16 options as a small business as a creator
36:20
36:20 as an an entrepreneur in terms of what
36:22
36:22 you want to do and then it also provides
36:25
36:25 you know if you’re a very large business
36:26
36:26 with a much more structured way of
36:28
36:28 thinking about how you go to market
36:30
36:30 >> and that thought of getting close to
36:31
36:31 people as well
36:32
36:32 >> to join in those conversations to listen
36:34
36:34 to them
36:34
36:34 >> well it becomes a two-way conversation
36:36
36:36 rather than a broadcast right
36:37
36:37 >> yeah I was thinking that around um
36:40
36:40 especially hearing uh from the Brit
36:42
36:42 school recently about how their artists
36:44
36:44 have got such deeper relationships
36:46
36:46 because they’ve been brought up if you
36:48
36:48 like to engage with their community
36:50
36:50 >> to take an interest not just to send a
36:52
36:52 record out there and see what happens
36:54
36:54 and there’s a rhyme there I think with
36:56
36:56 some of the best entrepreneurs I know
36:58
36:58 who really want to get close to it who
36:60
36:60 know that the most interesting fact
37:01
37:01 isn’t always in the deck.
37:03
37:03 >> Yeah, it like that was a wonderful
37:04
37:04 conversation, right? I I listened to it
37:06
37:06 last week. I think it gives you hope for
37:08
37:08 the future, right? In that, you know, uh
37:11
37:11 community is everything, right?
37:13
37:13 >> That’s made my day. You’ve listened to
37:14
37:14 that episode.
37:15
37:15 >> Excellent.
37:15
37:15 >> Great. Well, I’m I’m inspired and
37:17
37:17 impressed. Uh but we want you to meet
37:19
37:19 them as well cuz I think this ability to
37:21
37:21 help people go global much sooner than
37:23
37:23 they would have ever dreamed of
37:25
37:25 >> uh nothing against our record company
37:27
37:27 friends but that used to rely on the
37:30
37:30 very large intermediary.
37:31
37:31 >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah. Look and this
37:33
37:33 is this is what you know um I suppose
37:37
37:37 our ambition was at the beginning is
37:38
37:38 that like how do you democratize
37:40
37:40 marketing right and make it and it is
37:42
37:42 the same now in the AI world right how
37:44
37:44 can we put personal super intelligence
37:46
37:46 into the hands of everybody um and
37:49
37:49 actually everybody is probably the most
37:51
37:51 local word in that sentence right
37:53
37:53 because the barriers that people face
37:55
37:55 depending on where they are are
37:57
37:57 different it could be connectivity it
37:59
37:59 can be finance it can be confidence
38:01
38:01 right um So opening up to that sort of
38:04
38:04 world and where where you’re able to put
38:06
38:06 that sort of access into people’s hands
38:09
38:09 I think is really inspiring.
38:10
38:10 >> Yeah, it is because it’s it’s not even
38:12
38:12 that the small business is the lowest um
38:15
38:15 you know the sort of smallest unit in
38:17
38:17 that sense. You’ve got independence.
38:19
38:19 >> Yeah.
38:19
38:19 >> You’ve got soul traders. You’ve got, you
38:21
38:21 know, just millions of people.
38:23
38:23 >> Yeah. Um, Martin, I’m gonna ask you uh
38:25
38:25 the question we ask all about guests as
38:28
38:28 our final question, which is to send a
38:30
38:30 memo to yourself or to the future. It
38:33
38:33 could be to your future self, maybe
38:35
38:35 someone doing your role in something
38:37
38:37 like 10 years time. Um, look over here
38:40
38:40 and tell us what do you say to them?
38:42
38:42 >> Uh, I would say don’t forget about the
38:44
38:44 importance of human to human connection.
38:46
38:46 And the most important thing is that you
38:48
38:48 continue to build proximity to customers
38:50
38:50 and not just capability and tools.
38:54
38:54 It is such a refreshing note uh to end
38:57
38:57 on that idea of proximity through
39:00
39:00 humanto human connection. Uh super
39:03
39:03 grateful for that and for uh your uh
39:06
39:06 openness in this conversation. Martina
39:08
39:08 McDonald, thank you for joining us on
39:10
39:10 tomorrow.
39:10
39:10 >> Thank you Ali. It’s been a pleasure.
39:12
39:12 >> So that’s our conversation for today.
39:15
39:15 Yes, of course, a conversation with an
39:18
39:18 amazingly global company fueled by
39:21
39:21 technology. Except it was more. It was a
39:24
39:24 conversation about connection, about
39:25
39:25 human connection with businesses and
39:28
39:28 their customers, also with colleagues
39:30
39:30 and the idea that with global potential,
39:33
39:33 it matters enormously to tune in, to
39:35
39:35 listen locally so that those ideas flow
39:38
39:38 in both directions. I hope you’ve
39:40
39:40 enjoyed that as much as I have. My mind
39:43
39:43 is buzzing with those opportunities and
39:46
39:46 very much looking forward to bringing
39:47
39:47 more creators into our future forum
39:50
39:50 ecosystem off the back of today’s
39:52
39:52 episode. Uh please do share this with
39:55
39:55 anyone you think would enjoy it. And
39:57
39:57 crucially, if you want to keep up with
39:59
39:59 all things Future Forum, please do
40:00
40:00 subscribe to our newsletter. Uh the link
40:02
40:02 to that will be under this episode. It’s
40:05
40:05 tomorrow. It’s the Future Forum podcast.
40:07
40:07 I’m Ollie Barrett. Thank you for tuning
40:09
40:09 in and until next time, goodbye.
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